Being the seventh of 9 boys, Martin knows a thing or two about brothers as a lifelong lived experience. In this episode he reflects on the bonds that have shaped his life, beginning with a beautiful reading of Keats and culminating with in an intimate conversation at the mic with his younger brother, Joe Estevez. Along the way, family stories are shared, long-held truths come to light and listeners are invited into a side of Martin’s world few have witnessed.
Framed by the timeless writing of Keats and Tennyson, this is a heartfelt celebration of sibling camaraderie, memory and the enduring ties of family.
Enjoy.
A complete list of the writers and poets from Episode 3 Brothers
“To My Brothers” John Keats
Consider This A selection of “Ulysses” Alfred Lord Tennyson
“Where the Mind is Without Fear” Rabindranath Tagore
Network Sting: MSW Media
Martin: Hello and welcome to the fourth season of The Martin Sheen Podcast with yours truly, Martin Sheen, of course. And I’m delighted to be back hosting this podcast pilgrimage, where the destination is still and always will be the journey itself. Along the way, I plan to share stories and personal memories of some of the many people, places and events that have helped to shape my lifelong happy and continuing struggle as an artist and a man to unite the will of the spirit with the work of the flesh. I also hope to explore poetry as a powerful form of expression and communication by proxy, as it were, and how poetry is such a vital and necessary component of our spirituality and our public discourse. And from time to time, I’ll invite friends, fellow actors, poets, scholars and family members to join our pilgrimage and discuss what inspires their artistic journey. And so, friends, let us continue.
Martin: This episode is dedicated with gratitude and love to Manuel, Miguel, Conrad, Carlos, Frank, Alfonso and John, my brothers who are no longer with us.
Martin: To start off with, “To My Brothers” by Keats.
Small, busy flames play through the fresh laid coals and their faint cracklings o’ er our silence creep like whispers of the household gods that keep a gentle empire or fraternal souls. And while for rhymes I search around the poles, your eyes are fixed, as in poetic sleep, upon the lore so voluble and deep, that aye at fall of night our care condoles. This is your birthday, Tom. And I rejoice that thus it passes smoothly, quietly. Many such eves of gently whispering noise may we together pass and calmly try what are this world’s true joys ere the great voice from its fair face shall bid our spirits fly.
John Keats was an English poet famously known for his groundbreaking series of odes written in the style of Romanticism. Early in his life, he was encouraged to become an apothecary surgeon, but he never practiced medicine, choosing instead to be a writer. But he only published four years before his death. Nonetheless, he left behind body of work that would reshape English poetry, and his reputation soared posthumously during the Victorian era. Keats was born October 31, 1795, in Moorgate, London. He died February 23, 1821, in Rome, Italy. John Keats was 25 years old.
Martin: Consider This, a selection of the poem “Ulysses” by Alfred Lord Tennyson.
Come, my friends. Tis not too late to seek a newer world. Though much is taken, much abides. And though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Martin: We’re going to take a break here, but I assure you, there’s much more to come.
Martin: And we’re back.
Martin: Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with my younger brother, Joe Estevez, for a conversation at this mic. You know, I’m finding it a bit of a challenge talking to a family member, because you’re going to share stories that only the two of you could possibly know. And chances are they’ll even bring up a few stories you’d like to forget. But still, it’s comforting and a little bittersweet to realize that the continuity of our lives, lives in the memory of the people who’ve known us the longest and perhaps the best.
Martin: I’m very happy at this time to welcome my brother Joe, to the microphone. We are fellow actors, and, we are the last remaining brothers, along with our sister Carmen, that started out with a family, of ten, nine boys, one girl.
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: So I’m grateful for you for coming. Well, I’ve done some stories about, our family, a few about Pop and our mother, and, they’re all in the last century. So, I want to pull you into this century and, just get your thoughts on where you are, what you’re feeling and where you’re headed. And, and you’ve been through some, some things recently that have been very heroic.
Joe: Ah, well, I don’t know heroic, but gives you, gives you a sense of life and what life is really about. Yeah. What counts.
Martin: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Joe: So, yeah. but, it’s all good, you know, brother and I, he counseled me, quite a bit about, you know, I had cancer, the kidneys and cancer of the bladder. But, as of a month ago, I’m 100% cancer free.
Renee: So, congratulations.
Joe: God bless me, you know, so I’m back working, and life is good.
Martin Sheen: So.
Joe: Yeah, life is good.
Martin: You headed out to, Kentucky or Pennsylvania?
Joe: Pennsylvania. Very. Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.
Martin: Oh, yeah.
Joe: And then Louisville, Kentucky. And then, I hope to stop in, Chicago. You know, I used to work in Chicago a lot, so I want to stop there. And I still have friends there, so, you know, depends on. You know, I’m 80 now, so it depends on, how the health is. You know, that’s kind of long channel.
Renee: Wait a second you two, you can’t be 80, because that would make meeeeee… Oh, never mind. Okay.
Joe: You’re right, though. I cannot.
Renee: Yeah, it’s Renee here, your producer.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. So, hey, I’m 72.
Renee: Exactly. Thank you. Thank you, Joe, so much for that. Wait a second. Why are you going out on this trip? What’s this about?
Joe: I got a gig in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, called “Men of Granite.” And it’s four old, veterans. And, you know, it’s a run of. the run of the picture show that I haven’t had in quite a while. So I’m really looking forward to that. And then I got a little, gig in Louisville where I’m in about a dozen scenes, and every time I talk, something happens and they don’t hear me.
Renee: Well, that’s the story of my life, Joe. Wait a second.
Joe: I told the producer, I love it. this is gonna be a great experience for me.
Renee: So that’s Fantastic. I’m so happy to hear that.
Joe: It’s nice. It is great to get back, working again and get, you know, that people still remember me.
Martin: So back up for just a minute. You mentioned you’re playing a veteran.
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: Is it a Vietnam veteran?
Joe: Yeah. Well, we’re that age.
Martin: Yeah.
Joe: So we’re all. We’re all. And I think, you know, it’s like I’m really. For me, Dan Robach. I don’t know if you know who that is, but he’s. He’s the producer and director. And the guy that I’m, playing is just a real. Excuse my language. He’s a real (beep). Just. He’s just not. He’s just not a nice man. And through. And through the movie he comes around, but he’s still. He’s still. You know, he’s still. He’s a real (beep). And, So I’m happy that they cast me because it’s. Because I’m a. I’m a nice guy. Nice guy. But, anyway, I always thought I was. And if you
Renee: It’s very much confirmed here that you are.
Martin: As actors, we always get a license to, to explore various levels of behavior that we would not normally do in our everyday lives. I think people understand that. That we’re not the character we play. We reflect that and we are given the freedom to explore it as artists and all artists do it. You know. but you. If, you don’t mind my just taking you back a little bit to Vietnam. You were a Vietnam veteran in the U.S. navy. You want to reflect on that just for.
Joe: Well, you know, let me say this. I was on a ship called USS Passumosic and on a. On a clear day, I. I could see Vietnam. And we got combat pay and all the the the benefits with to go to be a, a combat veteran. But nobody was, nobody was, firing, at us. But, our brother John.
Martin: Yes,
Joe: by the way, whose birthday is today was May 9th. Yeah, May 9th. Is a Navy corpsman who is. You know, he’s trained as a Marine. He went to, Okinawa and you know, through the. All Marine training. And he, was there. And I just admire brother John so very much because, you know, he was, in combat. I mean, he was in combat and he was there not taking any lives. He was there to save lives.
Martin: Yeah, for sure.
Joe: And the, the short time I had with John when he got back from Vietnam, before I went over on the ship, you know, we, we went out drinking a time or two. And, no, he could not. He could not buy a drink, you know. You know, he went into bar, and, you know, they recognized he was a corpsman, and they really took care.
Renee: They had a lot of respect.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. So, kudos to John, you know, but for me, it was, it was a great time, quite frankly, you know,
Martin: yeah, we lost our brother just about three years ago.
Joe: To agent Orange. Yeah, to agent Orange. Yeah.
Renee: Yeah. So John was, how old was he?
Joe: He was 78, I think, when he passed. Just about. Just about, I think, his birthday coming up. He died in, what, March and. Or late February.
Martin: Yeah,
Joe: yeah, yeah. But a good guy. And he’s here. He’s here with us right now.
Martin: There you go.There’s a story that I tell about John. Years ago, Janet, my wife, was doing a seminar, and, one day she gave me a list of materials she needed for the class. She gave me this list of stuff to get at the art supply store. And I went over there, and, I’m wandering around the place, picking up stuff according to the list, and a guy stops me and he says, excuse me, you’re the actor Martin,Sheen? I am. I said. He said, you have a brother named John? I said, yeah, I do. He said, how is he? I said, well, I think he’s great. He’s working at PBS in Dayton, Ohio, where we grew up. And he said, do you know that he saved my life in Vietnam?
Joe: Oh, my God.
Martin: And I said, no, he’s never told me that he saved anybody’s life. Of course, he never would. You know him. And he said, well, is he still living? I said, yeah, of course he is. He said, well, you could put us in touch if I give you my information. I said, of course. He gave me all his information, and I passed it on to John, and he laughed it off and said, no, no. Ah, how was he? You know, he asked me about him, and I said, oh, he’s great and this and that, but he would never take the rap for having saved his life. But I know damn well he did.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe: No, he never talked about. He. He. He told me one. One little story where he, he was walking with his platoon, and, he felt the string across his chest, and he backed up. He thought, you know, it was like. It was a leaf or something. It was a booby trap. And if it again, you know,
Renee: oh, my God,
Joe: two meters further. And he would have, you know,
Martin: trip the wire.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, but that’s it. That’s the only story he’s ever told me about, about Vietnam. Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah. What a great story, though. Yeah.
Martin: He saved his life. Yeah.
Joe: So I want to ask you this. Okay. You know, I’m saying, you know, and I got a feeling. But we had. There was nine boys in the family, and our sister Carmen. And do you have a favorite
Martin: among, the brothers?
Joe: Yeah,
Martin: yeah, I had, Well, I think we. We both settled on John.
Joe: Well, yeah. Okay.
Martin: You and I and John and Carmen were what we called or what the family called the Yanks.
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: We were the first ones born in the States.
Joe: Yeah.
Renee: Well, I do have a question for both of you. Do you have a favorite sister?
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: Ok! The only sister, Carmen!
Joe: I always thought that you had a camaraderie with,
Martin: Al.
Joe: well, Al. Yeah. But, Manuel, Well, when you were younger anyway.
Martin: Yeah, but he was so kind of removed from our.
Joe: Our group.
Martin: But I. No, I wouldn’t say I was close to him. There was just too much distance between, our ages, you know?
Joe: Yeah. When we were kids, your father, there was a show in Dayton, Ohio, called the Rising Generation. And, your dad went on the show and there’s about five contestants, I guess, and he did, The Creation, I think,
Renee: by James Wendell Johnson.
Martin: Yeah, we recorded it here.
Renee: We just love that poem.
Joe: and he won it. And the big trip was a trip to New York. And we, were all so very proud. Oh, my God.
Joe: You know, because Rising Generation, it was big in Dayton. I mean, it was big. and it was all, you know, local talent and
Martin: Yeah, but they’d never had an actor on before.
Joe: No. Ah, yeah.
Martin: Dancers. Ah, yeah, regular variety shows.
Joe: And, and you and Manuel went to New York. You took Manuel?
Martin: Yeah, he was, he was my, my escort.
Joe: Really? Yeah.
Renee: How old were you then?
Martin: I was. I had just turned 18.
Joe: Ah.
Martin: Okay.
Renee: Was that the trip you met, Robert Dale Martin?
Martin: That’s right. I took his name. We. We did a show about it. Yeah, that was that.
Joe: And you took his name.
Martin: Yeah, he’s the guy. Yeah. Robert Dale Martin was the casting director at CBS.
Joe: let me ask you this, because I was. I was, I toured with a play in Ireland called A Short Wake. Carmen came to see us, from Spain. She came over and spent some time with us and was on the tour with us for about three or four months. When she said that when she watched the play, she saw all of our brothers. In my performance. And I see, when I watch your performances, I see different brothers at different times, and I’m totally, totally unaware of it. But I think that we’re very impressionable. We don’t know that we’re picking up these little idiosyncrasies and such that we do.
Joe: a comment that you made earlier. I think sometimes that when we perform as actors, I think that we show so much more of ourselves than we do during a regular conversation, because we’re totally unguarded. You know, we just let our spirit speak and whatever moves us in that moment, you know, And I just feel this incredible vulnerability. It’s such a blessing to do this kind of work, you know, to work in this, this art form. It’s really, wow, how blessed we are to do this. It’s. And they actually give you money for it most of the time.
Martin: Not all the time.
Renee: Sometimes.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. But, it’s really, it’s,
Martin: But you asked, you know, early, and I want to ask you, did you project anyone from the family specifically on a role or performance?
Joe: You mean in a performance?
Martin: Yeah.
Joe: No,
Martin: because I did. Yeah, I did a couple of them. Yeah. One of them was Al, our brother Alfonso, who was the one right in front of me a year and a half. Well, we were like so called Irish twins. And.
Joe Yeah, yeah.
Martin: And. And he. And, I did the. I did the Execution of Private Slovik. And he was the model in my imagination for that part because he was so vulnerable. Of all the brothers, I, don’t think any of us were as vulnerable as he was. and I got to know him very well. He lived out here and lived with us for a while.
Renee: and your brother Carlos, my uncle Charlie. Talk about a knowledge. A man who just devoured books, just traveled with a library card. just despised the capitalistic way of life
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: He was always telling me, why do you buy a book? You know, you. Then you have to store it. And he said, just get a library card.
Renee: with a library card. You’ll be set for life. Yeah, yeah. Ah, he was amazing. He read everything. He was so knowledgeable about things.
Martin: Yeah, he was. And he was also a horse trainer. Yeah, you knew that.
Joe: And a cook and a merchant seaman.
Martin: Merchant seaman.
Martin: He was a photographer.
Joe: Yeah.
Martin: Okay, so we’re going to, Thank you so much, Joe, for being with us today.
Joe: And I would very much like to thank you, my brother, and, what I hadn’t said in me and all the years that I’ve been an actor. Your dad gave me the star. He gave me a marvelous co starring role in a film called Pretty Boy Floyd, way back in the day that it got me to second base, you know, and it got my SAG card and so I will be eternally thank you for that brother. Thank you for giving me a leg up in this business.
Renee: Yes, I’m so happy to hear that.
Joe: Yeah. But ah, totally enjoyed the cabitzing. What a joy. Thank you for inviting me.
Martin: I invite you to delve further into the works of the poets I shared with you, and I hope you seek out writers and poets whose work speaks to your hearts and minds with the power to inspire.
If you’ve enjoyed what you’ve heard here, please subscribe to my podcast, The Martin Sheen Podcast, with your host, yours truly, Martin Sheen. Of course, wherever you find your podcasts. Yeah. I still have to say that.
You can find a complete list of the poets and titles of their poems that I’ve chosen at our website, themartensheenpodcast.com
I want to thank the people who make this podcast possible: our producer and research assistant, Renee Estevez, whose explanation of the Internet really gets me thinking, “What’s for lunch?” And our sound engineer and editor, Bruce Greenspan, the man behind these rich and, seamless recordings with the much deserved nickname, the Sound Surgeon. And I especially want to thank you, our listeners, for joining me.
And so, friends, we part with the prayer from Tagore.
We are called to lift up this nation and all its people to that place where the heart is without fear and the head is held high. Where knowledge is free, where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls. Where words come out from the depths of truth and tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection. Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sands of dead habit. Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever widening thought and action, into that heaven of freedom. Dear friends, Father, let our country awake. Amen.
Renee: The Martin Sheen Podcast. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, distributed or transmitted in any form without prior written consent of the author and TE productions.
