Whose Idea Was This Podcast? Special Episode

Network Sting: MSW Media Media.

Martin: Hello and welcome to a special episode of The Martin Sheen Podcast with yours truly, Martin Sheen, of course, and my favorite daughter and producer, Renee Estevez.

Renee: Hello.

Martin: That’s enough. And our favorite sound engineer, Bruce Greenspan.

Bruce: Hi there.

Martin: We met at this mic and had a brief but revealing conversation to answer the burning question, “whose idea was it for me to do a podcast?” Yeah, I may not be sharing a personal story or reciting a poem in this episode, but I will be getting to the bottom of who’s to blame for starting this podcast. Seriously though, the premise of this podcast has evolved in leaps and bounds since we began and a lot goes into the production as well. So we thought it might be interesting for our listeners to hear us share a little of our behind-the-scenes journey. And so, friends, let us begin.

Martin: So, you know what, can I segue a little bit into this podcast, please? Because it would not exist without you and Bruce, who happen to be neighbors, of course. But, I had no interest in doing a podcast at all.

Renee: I know, and I sometimes wonder if you even do now.

Martin: Oh, sorry.

Renee: I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. You’re a busy man.

Martin: I’m a busy man.

Renee: You are a busy man. And I’ve asked a lot of you to share your stories. You write them. You write every word. I edit every word. But you write it and you pour yourself into these stories, and I’m on the other side doing all the nuts and bolts and stuff, bringing in,

Martin: doing the editing, and then you, you put music to the final cut.

Renee: Yeah, but I mean, it wouldn’t exist without what you’re doing.

Martin: Well, go back to your encouraging me to do it in the first place, because as I said, I didn’t have any interest in doing it. I had never listened to anyone’s pod. I didn’t even know what a podcast was. so talk a little bit about what you wanted to do.

Renee: But actually, though, Pop, my idea was that you would come to do the podcast. We would be predominantly interviews. You know, it would take that onus off of you having to write stories and you would talk about your career and you would interview people you had worked with, who are many. I mean, we could do another hundred podcasts and you could talk to a person every single podcast for a hundred more episodes where you had worked with that person.

Martin: Is that how it started?

Renee: Well, that was my, that was my vision. And I remember we even spoke to a couple of pod platforms that wanted to produce us and said, hey, I, think you ought to do this whole West Wing thing and just talk to the West Wing people and interview them and talk about West Wing. And I said, well, that’ll be one part of it. I said, but I wanna look at your life in totality and your relationship with the people you’ve worked with and have the two of you sit across from each other and share the story of that job. Or that.

Martin: How did you know how to do a podcast?

Renee: I didn’t. I had no idea.

Martin: That is the most fascinating and most incredible story is how you discovered how to do it on your own and how you went about it without anybody, taking you by the hand. It’s like you found ways and means to do it and you’re still doing that. And so just share a little bit about what lies behind your being the producer of this show.

Renee: Well, there were two factors, two huge factors. Which were I thought we would find somebody to produce us and pay for the show.

Martin: Yeah, I did, too.

Renee: Take us under their wing. But everybody we kept talking with, they were railroading you into a West Wing podcast.

Bruce: But that was after we started recording.

Renee: Well, you wanted to share poetry.

Martin Sheen: It came as a. You know, it was originally called Poetic Justice.

Renee: Yeah.

Bruce: And it was about poetry, but we

Martin: weren’t allowed to use that name because somebody already had it.

Martin: My idea was we do the interviews and let that be the bulk of it. Then you said you wanted to do poetry, and I was like, okay, so we’re gonna do an hour-long podcast.

Martin: Oh, no.

Renee: And it’s all poetry and you want classical music. Okay. So we started there and we started recording poems. And you started. We started working in Surfrider Studios. Surf Rider Sound. Your studio?

Bruce: Yes, My living room.

Renee: Yes, your living room. You tasked me with getting fanfare for the Common Man.

Martin: Getting the rights for it.

Renee: Yeah. And that took me down a rabbit hole for a couple of weeks, but

Bruce: demonstrated what we could do. And then you just started coming over and recorded poem, poem after poem after poem, things that you were interested in and reading. And you’d come in with a stack of books and loosely, I mean, just like you were going to college and, you know, studying for your LSATs.

Renee: And I would sit on the couch next to Gracie, our studio mascot, who’s no longer with us,

Martin: And she’s still a blessing.

Renee: She would start snoring so loud, I would have to sit next to her and shake her all the time to keep her awake so she wouldn’t snore during your takes of each poem.

Martin: But

Renee: So we started doing the poetry and then I started realizing, how the heck are we gonna fill an hour of podcast with poetry? Particularly when they were coming out to be a minute, minute and a half even, with, a bio and an obit to the author. And also, there was lots of other stuff on the peripheral that we had to start looking at. And then I started realizing that we started recording the poetry, and we talked to a couple people to produce us. And again, not a single one of them asked you what you wanted to do. Everybody said, I think you should do this. And it was all West Wing centric. And I felt really strongly at the time, like, wait a minute, you know, they kind of already got their due, and you’re still beloved for that. But I wanna show you moving into a new phase in your life. I want to show that you are moving into something  new

Martin: old age,

Renee: You’re enjoying a new side. So I started looking into it, and I realized that if we went with somebody else, not only would they produce us, they would own it.

Martin: Yeah, that was a concern.

Renee: I ultimately wanted you to own your own feed, first of all, so that no matter what happened with this project that was starting out, it would always be in your control and in your ownership. And that was really important to me. So that’s when I started my own corporation. Yeah, I incorporated. I learned all the rules. I worked with lawyers, I got contracts done. I, have a contract with you, too. And one of these days, you’re gonna get paid, but just not this season. Okay, Sorry.

Martin: You know,

Renee: All the money is in the podcast. It really is. and the joy of being free to produce the show we wanted to do is now, I think, one of the best parts of this. So it started progressing. We were told by numerous people, you’re never gonna get the name Poetic Justice. You’re gonna be drowning in a sea of other titles called Poetic Justice. It’s always going to be the bane of your show. And that’s when I was like, let’s just call it the Martin Sheen Podcast. You know, let’s lean into our strengths here.

Martin: The simplest things.

Renee: And then you came to tell stories.

Bruce: But before telling stories, you were instinctively, you’d be doing poetry, and it would remind you of something, and you would just start talking to us. You start telling a story. And as an engineer, if Martin’s talking, I’m recording. Tape is cheap. And that eventually became, oh, the open mic segment. We’ve got a story here about Joe Papp. We’ve got a story here about Charles Laughton. Charlie Laughton. And they became fabulous stories. And then with that, you said, well, let me write this story, and you started writing your stuff. So this is like your memoirs. You know, I mean, it’s, They’re beautiful. I love how this podcast evolved, you know, through itself. You know, it’s like you just. What you’re.

Martin: Just by doing it.

Martin: Just by doing it, it created no idea how to do it. Life and an energy.

Martin: But it wouldn’t have been possible without the two of you. But in large measure, you’re embracing the responsibility, Renee, of actually doing it, because you did all the work that I didn’t have a clue you doing.

Bruce: She learned how to become a network.

Martin: Yeah, she did.

Bruce: Network.

Renee: We kind of have our own little media network now. Yeah. And it’s still stuff I’m learning every day. I spent most of last weekend how to. Making my. To make my own clips for all your socials.

Martin: Really?

Martin: Yeah. For all the Martin Sheen podcast socials. Yeah. And that’s been a real eye opener for me, and I’m loving learning how to do it. I just wish it didn’t take me forever. so I really. I don’t want to work with anybody who we work with on this and not kind of have an idea of what they do and how to do it. Bruce, what you do is still a mystery to me. Sorry. Don’t worry, you’ve got job security. You completely do. But everything else, I really want to learn how to do it. and I have a small idea about most of it, but mostly, I love producing the show. It’s like when we finish the shows and we put it in the feed, that is the joy part of this, the absolute fun. When I’m working with Bruce and we’re laying the music in till we find the right music, and it just comes together, and then you edit it, these beautiful takes, and it happens, and then we’re there, and then you put it together and we listen back to it. We’re like, yes, this is what I love.

Martin: It’s wonderful.

Renee: doing all the other stuff can be a little, daunting. It’s like, okay, that’s part of it. We do a great show. We want people to hear it. And I do it so wholeheartedly because I so believe in this project. I believe in its authenticity. I believe that it is such a real slice of sharing and a journey and a personal journey, which is yours, which is so relatable on so many levels. That you write a story that I can see it. I’m there with you and I feel it.

Martin: Wow.

Bruce: That’s what happens.

Martin: Yeah. I’m reminding people that the story actually, happened in the last century. Yeah.

Martin Sheen: But the thing is, these are universal themes. And yes, there are moments when, okay, it did happen at a time where maybe most kids or most 20 year olds or 30-year-olds nowadays maybe couldn’t have that, that experience, but. But they can still feel that way. They can still feel. Those emotions are nothing new, you know, And I feel so strong when I say that it’s what it is. That your podcast really is what it is to be human. That’s what it’s about. And going there 100%. I never feel like when you get to the end of a story, I’ve got like half of you, you know, you did it 100%. You bring your A game every time. And that’s why this is a joy

Martin: because you don’t settle for anything less.

Martin: We’re going to take a brief pause now, but please don’t go away. There’s a lot more to come. Welcome back. I’m so glad you stayed.

Martin:And I also want to say how grateful I am and how much I appreciate your

Renee: Annoyingness?

Martin: coming to the mic with your story because you had written a story about me and we were able to include it in Our Fathers, an episode in the last season.

Bruce: What a great story.

Martin: It is a great story. I was telling a story about my father and you reminded me about myself and you as a child. So it was a perfect, episode. And, I’ve had a lot of great comments on it. So my question to you is, are you going to continue to contribute on the mic?

Martin: I’ll share this story. I don’t wanna step on your toes. This is your moment. This is your show. And I don’t wanna.

Martin: I’ll remind you that there is no show without you.

Martin Sheen: I know, but trust me, I’m everywhere. You know, I’m in your website, I’m in your socials, I’m yacking at the mic in the background. I’ve inserted myself everywhere,

Martin: thank God.

Renee: But when it comes to your stories, they are just, they are unique and genuine and these gems. And I like to step back and not encroach on that. Yes, I’ll come to the mic and I will definitely share another story. and they’ll be few and far between because season three, it is so beautifully laden with your stories. That is all front loaded.

Bruce: Yeah, they’re great.

Renee: I love that.

Martin: Yeah. Well, this can be in the Third season.

Renee: Oh.

Martin: But now we’re talking about a fourth season, because the third is pretty complete, isn’t it?

Renee: Almost. Yeah.

Martin: So we need to focus on the fourth season. Yeah. Now, let me ask you, because, we.

Renee: What are you reading? What do you got? What are you reading? What are you reading?

Martin: So many folks are starting to, find our podcast. And let me just ask you, because we’ve talked a little about this, but not specifically. And that is, what is the future, the future of this podcast?

Renee: Well, obviously, what we’re doing is a lovely radio show that I think is the crux, that is the cornerstone of this podcast. And I love doing that, and I would love to continue to do that.

Martin: Okay. But I also want to mention how, difficult it is sometimes to get the rights to so how many poets have we recorded that we are not able to put on the air because we can’t get the rights?

Renee: You know what? There’s only two.

Bruce: Two. Right now.

Martin: There are two? I want you to expose these poets. Expose them now.

Renee: I live in hope. T

Martin: this is your opportunity to expose them

Renee: I literally wake up every morning and make coffee and live in hope that Bukowski will make it to our podcast.

Martin: His first and last name,

Renee: Charles Bukowski. God blessed his soul like his poetry and, you know, God rest him. And I think those poems are wonderful to offer to a modern audience.

Martin: Yeah. Ah. And what is the other poet?

Renee: who was it? C.S. Lewis.

Martin: C.S. Lewis.

Renee: As the ruin falls. Falls within a catagory.

Martin: But what about T.S. Eliot? We’ve recorded him. And he hasn’t appeared.

Renee: No, we haven’t yet. the Hollow Men is a really intense poem.

Martin: We recorded it, didn’t we?

Renee: We have, and it is to music. I tell you, quite honestly, I have not found the right place for it yet.

Martin: But we got the rights to T.S. Eliot, yes?

Renee: Oh, yeah, yeah, we got T.S. Eliot. We got the rights to the Hollow Men.

Martin: we got the rights to everything else we’ve done.

Renee: Everything else we’ve done except Bukowski and, C.S. Lewis. Those are the only two authors. Yeah.

Martin: Okay. One of the things that I’ve always loved doing was your idea to give a brief, chronology of the writer and their most well-known, works and, telling when they were born and where and where they died.

Renee: This might be something interesting for your listeners to know. I do write the bio bits.

Martin: Yes.

Renee: I really do. So whatever you hear in it is the things that I find interesting. and I do tend to find things that are very rebel about a poet or an author or that they Lived an alternative life or, you know, that they were a much broader person than was previously known. I love it when we find things about women poets who are very courageous or women authors, and they really had to blaze a new trail. I love putting bits like that into the Biobit section that we affectionately call the bio bit. Yeah, yeah. So. So I hope that when you read them, it interests you too.

Martin: Very much so, yeah.

Renee: That people are getting a good heavy dose of what interests me.

Martin: I often wonder if we have a value for young people these days because there is not, a whole lot of value put on reading or poetry. and the fact that, we are essentially a radio program. They are called to use their imaginations more and more.

Renee: No visuals

Martin: No visuals. And I was raised on the radio, so that is my. My intent really is to get. Is to have young people, hear what I heard growing up and was encouraged, to use my imagination.

Renee: Well, I think that’s why we really put it together as a show, as a presentation. and it’s just this beautiful little 18 minutes, 18, 19, 20 minutes sometimes just to pop in, take a moment, relax, maybe learn something new, maybe tune out, maybe enjoy visual, but without the visual, I think it sparks your imagination to see it better.

Martin: For sure.

Renee: You know, and I’m not just, you know, rationalizing that we don’t have an on camera. I really think it does. I think that is the beauty of it. if we were to put together some odd little cartoon of you dressed in, you know, your winter best, taking a bus with your dad, I think it could be distracting. But anyway, so you’re enjoying this podcast.

Martin: Very much so.

Renee: And I got that. I now have that at the mic, so you cannot. Yeah, we got that forever. Okay.

Martin: All right.

Renee: And, yeah, sorry to be so long winded about all this. I.

Martin: Well, my hope is that we can continue with the level of quality because, that’s what’s.

Renee: Oh, that’s all on you

Martin: and the choices. Because I use this phrase as we used to use it in the 50s, but it’s a family show. there’s, youngsters can listen to us without feeling embarrassed or learning new words that are not appropriate for youngsters.

Renee: Your granddaughter, my niece Cassandra, said to me the other day, she said, I can have your show on in the car and know it’s totally fine, where all my three girls are in the car, ages, you know, 8 and 11. And I can, you know, be in the middle of a commute and I don’t have to listen to something that is completely child centric, just to make everybody in the car happy. And so she says, I feel so safe when I put your show on.

Martin: Oh, I’m glad.

Renee: I am too. Yay. Thank you!

Martin: All right.

Bruce: And it’s genuine.

Martin Sheen: Yeah.

Bruce: And even subconsciously, people connect with genuine.

Renee: Yeah. You don’t read a poem. You don’t read a story. You tell a story.

Martin: Oh, wow.

Renee: You enact a poem.

Martin: In all, I wish it didn’t take so long to write those stories, because that is what takes so much, time and energy. I’m very scrupulous about the content of the story to begin, But I also decided to write them because I didn’t want to just take notes and improvise on it, because I wanted the audience to feel that this was prepared, that this has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and that it is personal, because I believe if something’s not personal on this level, then it’s impersonal. If it’s impersonal, who cares? So I do it because I cannot not do it. And. And do it. You know.

Renee: Can I just tell you that once you put that time and energy and effort into it, and then Bruce gets a hold of it.

Martin: Yeah.

Renee: And does this beautiful sound editing.

Martin: Yeah.

Renee: And it’s seamless. And it’s, But anyway, it just sits there. So, anyway, I’ll let you go.

Martin: I’ll let you go.

Renee: Are these proceedings concluded?

Martin: These proceedings, you love to say concluded. And, thank you so much.

Bruce: Let’s record one now. Okay.

Martin: I hope you’ve enjoyed this special episode with Renee and Bruce, and I encourage you to check out our regular show themartensheenpodcast.com or wherever you find your podcast. Yep. My producer says I still gotta say that even on a special episode.

I want to thank the people who make this possible. Those two windbags you’ve just heard from talking for the last 20 minutes. Renee and Bruce and I especially want to thank you, our listeners, for joining us.

And so, friends, we part with a poem that Renee chose for this episode, The Age Demanded by Ernest Hemingway.

The age demanded that we sing and cut away our tongue.

The age demanded that we flow and hammered in the bung.

The age demanded that we dance and jammed us into iron pants.

And in the end, the age was handed the sort of sh@t that it demanded.

Martin: Sorry, I didn’t see that ending coming. Renee!

Renee: The Martin Sheen Podcast. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form without prior written consent of the author and TE Productions.