Sun & The Saint Special Episode

Martin Sheen: You okay, everybody? Yeah? Here we go.

Bruce: This is the Paloma Reed interview, take one!

Martin: Hello and welcome to this very special episode of the Martin Sheen Podcast. At this time, I’m delighted to present a song from the premiere album of a young duo that call themselves Sun & The Saint. One of the duo happens to be my granddaughter, Paloma Estevez. Her partner is Ruth Reed Thomas Lawrence, and they are here for an in-depth interview right after we play my favorite track from their album, be somebody.

Sun & The Saint: Money ain’t gonna make you happy. Misery makes you think it will. You think you’re gonna be strong enough when no one else said it help. You think you’re gonna be strong enough to be okay by yourself. Everybody wants to be somebody. Everybody wants to be somebody else. There’s nothing that you have to do or be to make you better than yourself. You don’t have to hide your feelings. Look at all you have inside. I know you’ve been let down too hard. Everything they said was a little harsh. Remember all the ones who really care. Remember all the ones who told you bow they felt. Everybody wants to be somebody. Everybody wants to be somebody else. You know what you have to do it be the one you really know so well. Maybe they don’t have your kindness. Maybe they don’t have your flare. Maybe they don’t have your heart. Maybe that’s why you shouldn’t care. Everybody wants to be somebody. Everybody wants to be somebody else. There’s nothing that you have to do…

Martin: So now we do the interview. You guys ready for the interview? Ready?

Reed Thomas Lawrence: Absolutely.

Martin Sheen: Did you get a level?

Reed Thomas Lawrence: Uh, I think so.

Martin: Yeah?

Reed Thomas Lawrence: Yeah?

Martin: Yeah. Okay, here we go. Ready?

Paloma Estevez: Mhm.

Martin: Paloma Estevez and Reed Thomas Lawrence, welcome to the podcast.

Paloma Estevez: Thank you so much for having us.

Martin: I’m delighted and congratulations on your first album together. Well done indeed. Paloma, let’s start with you. You’ve been a professional musician literally all your adult life. You played percussions on your father’s film, The Way. Your father, of course, is Emilio Estevez. But you began as a youngster in high school playing trombone in jazz orchestra. Tell us what that was like and how you made the transition to drums.

Paloma: Yeah, I started playing trombone when I was nine years old and I played in the classical orchestra first off, and then I later joined the jazz band, which is where I was playing jazz on trombone, watching the drummer pretty much the entire time thinking, oh man, that looks cool. That’s what I want to do. So that was my first inspiration to start playing drums, was gawking over the jazz drummer in the jazz band.

Martin: But then you, you actually just, just jumped on a, a set of drums at a party during, ah, when the band took a break and you started playing and everyone was astonished. Tell us about that.

Paloma: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s a true story. I, I always felt like I could play drums just naturally. So I was begging for a drum set for a long time. And at, ah, this party that I was at, my friend’s party, my dad and my brother were there, and this lady, I just ended up talking to some lady, and I think she was just so hammered and like, she was having a good time. And I don’t know how we just started talking about music. And I said, yeah, I’ve always wanted to play drums. And for some reason she thought that I said, I play drums. And she was like, well, why don’t you go play drums at the party? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I don’t play drums. I want to play drums. And she didn’t listen to me. She dragged me over to the drum set. There was a 12-piece jazz band that was on break. And she goes, oh, here’s the drummer. He’s gonna let you sit on the drum set. She pushed me onto the drum set. I’m 13 years old and I and I’m freaking out. And all of a sudden the band comes back from their break, and I’m on the drum set at the party. There’s like a hundred plus people at this party. And the keyboard player sits down, turns around, looks at me and goes, okay, 1, 2, 3, 4. And he starts counting off. And I just started playing drums. It was really weird. It was a very strange day. I was just like, sort of watching my body play drums.

Martin: Your dad was witness to that, and he was astonished, along with everyone at that party, that it was a natural inclination. That was a life changing experience, was it not?

Paloma: It was.

Martin: Yeah. Reed, you’re from Bend, Oregon. Tell us how you and Paloma came together and how Sun and The Saint came about.

Reed: Yeah, uh, so we met in 2022. I had been out of music for a while, and I was asked to play for a friend’s band, and I, uh, wasn’t gonna play, and I kind of got pulled into it. And I saw Paloma on the drum set, and I heard her play, and I was blown away by this, this gorgeous girl who could just play, you know, so, uh, incredibly well. And we kind of clicked musically, and I saw something there. And then later she heard some songs that I had lying around, and she said, what are you doing with these songs? We should finish these. And, um, the songs led to us deciding and saying we should start our own band. So, um, we. We started tossing around band names and thinking about how that was going to come about.

Martin: But how did you land on the band’s name? Sun and the Saint?

Paloma: Yeah, the, the band name was pretty tough. We got asked to play a couple of shows. One of them was South by Southwest. And we were so excited, but we realized we need to make a flyer. But we don’t have a band name. So we had all these songs. We had no name because it took us so long to decide. Um, we made a list of maybe like 3,400, I showed you before this. So, you know, it’s true. Um, maybe 400 band names that we went through. And we stayed up till midnight every night trying to decide. And we went through like, these band names. So if anyone needs a band name, we’ve got them. I like.

Renee: Did you register all those domains?

Paloma: No.

Reed: Shut up.

Martin: Really?

Reed: No.

Paloma: We don’t own 400 bands. Um, my favorite was Okay, Lawrence. Because sometimes I say that to Reed like, Okay Lawrence. I thought that was funny. Um, we had quite a few, but we ended up with Sun & The Saint because we just kept going. And it was a name we finally agreed on and a name we didn’t hate.

Martin: You kind of backed into it. Huh, huh?

Paloma: Yeah.

Martin: So who plays what? And are you equally responsible for the music and the lyrics?

Paloma: I play drums and do background vocals live. Um, and then for the album, I wrote the bass lines and Reed, you can say what you did.

Reed: Yeah, I played guitar and sang lead vocals and, yeah, we joint wrote the whole album. We did everything. We, uh, wrote, produced or, Paloma, uh, did a lot of the arranging. She was very skilled in that area from, you know, uh, her skills in composing and stuff. But she. We, uh, we basically just, you know, similar to the band names, coming up with lyrics and ideas and everything, just blah. Uh, just kind of like, you know, word vomit on the, you know, paper and computers. And then you go through everything and you start sculpting and shaping the song until it feels right. So.

Martin: So where does a song come from and why?

Reed: I think they come from the stars. Honestly. I feel like it’s, uh. My, my theory is, is they’re already written and they’re kind of in the ether. And you’re, you’re listening for what sounds like it’s supposed to come through or something that sounds like it’s already been done or finished. And then you, you, if you’re tuned in the right way, you can kind of pull it out of the sky and it might be a piece of it, it might be a full song. Sometimes you sit down and the whole thing just comes out. Sometimes it’s just a piece and you have to work really hard to get it. But, yeah, I think they’re already written.

Martin: Does that work for you, Paloma?

Paloma: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, um, you kind of get a sense if you know it’s right or wrong, and not that there’s right or wrong, but you know, that it. It’s. It just feels right. Like, oh, that’s it. To me, it sounds like it already was a song, if that makes sense. Like, it sounds familiar. Yeah.

Martin: Okay, we’re going to take a brief pause now, but please don’t go away. There’s a lot more to come. Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us as we continue.

Martin: Well, being in a band has its challenges. Do you ever get on each other’s nerves or their disagreements? And how do you solve them?

Paloma: No, no, never. No, we get along.

Reed: Oh, you said no. I said no.

Paloma: I’m joking. Of course we do. Yeah, we, we disagreed a lot while making the album, like, because we’re both very passionate people, especially when it comes to creative decisions. And a lot of times, like, uh, you know, I’ll be, you know, kind and brief here, but a lot of times I would be like, hey, I hear this part. I hear this guitar line where you, like, sing and play guitar the same notes at the same time. And I’m hearing the whole. Like, to me, I hear the whole thing done and finished, and I’m like, can you just try it? And Reed would be like, no. This is what happened a lot. No, I don’t think that’s good. No, I don’t think so. And I’d be like, but I hear it, and I’m just so frustrated. And then he’d be like, no, I’m not gonna try. Be like, just try it. Right?

Martin: Yeah.

Paloma: Yeah.

Reed: But if I might add to that, I learned to really trust Paloma because her repertoire of songs from being a drummer and playing for so many years is, is, is in the 500 to 1,000 range. And so the amount of songs she has in her DNA, a lot of the times, the suggestions she would be suggesting would end up being right because it would be the thing, like when she would say, oh, we need to remove this part or this bar, or there needs to be space there where we just drop out, I would fight it. But later, that would be the thing that would make the song. So I started to really trust her because she just knew what would work, you know, from her.

Martin: How many tracks are on this first album for Sun and the Saint? 14 tracks, all original songs. Composed and arranged by the two of you jointly?

Paloma: Yep.

Martin: That’s amazing. Yeah. So tell us, when was the album released?

Paloma: November 22, 2024.

Martin: Ah, okay.

Paloma: Yeah.

Martin: And what is the history since then of, uh, what have you done to promote it and, and, and where, where are you in that journey?

Reed: Yeah, we’re, we’re still going. We’re still pushing it. Just because I feel like in today’s world, you know, so many people do singles, they, they release a song every day, every week, every. And I think the, the thing that we’ve kind of figured out or realized is that until people know who you are, they don’t know who you are. So why would you continue to release music if people don’t know who you are? So if you have a body of work, it’s new to everybody until it’s not new to them. So there’s so many songs that it takes so much time to promote each of those songs that we, we’re still going strong, so we’re still pushing the album. And yeah, we’ve hit, we’ve hit a few really great milestones, you know, like, um, getting a licensing deal, um, starting to chat with managers and booking, uh, about touring. And so there’s a lot of other things as well, but those are kind of the main, the main things that we wanted to hit being a band is, uh, get that stuff out of the way, work on the socials, and then get on the road and start playing these songs live for people.

Martin: Okay. Do you have any plans for another album?

Paloma: No.

Renee: Not until you lose your mind, right?

Paloma: Exactly. I’d have to be a crazy person.

Reed: Let’s say we know why people do singles. You know, we know why they do singles now.

Paloma: Yeah. Yeah, we’d like to put out a single. That was just, just being silly. But, yeah, an album is a lot of work. And my hat is off to anyone that’s put an album out now. Like, I didn’t know it was that much work. And now I understand fully. It’s like, it’s a beating. So a beating and a blessing at the same time. But, um, yeah, we like to put out some singles from now on for a little bit.

Renee: Can I pipe in just for a second, Renee here, by the way, I’m just curious, do you ever bring a brand new original song to see how it goes over in front of your family members? Or would you be like, uh, wrong place?

Paloma: No, it’s funny you mentioned that because that’s, uh, actually what we have done, like, we’ve played here, right. And other family and friend gatherings, we have kind of gotten a sense of what songs are landing better. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely did. We didn’t know that, we didn’t know Take Me Back to California was like anything. Like we were like, I don’t know, like all of our songs kind of seemed equal to us and now we’re kind of, yeah, you get a sense playing in front of other people.

Renee: I was wondering if it made a difference in front of strangers or in front of family. Yeah, you just never know.

Reed: No, I think it’s like that for audiences too, because, I mean, uh, that’s what makes it really hard to be a new band in today’s world is people want to hear stuff they know, like covers and, you know, stuff like that. So coming out as a new band with new songs is really, uh, challenging because you’re trying to get people who know nothing about you to care. And it’s like, you know, it takes a lot of, of putting it in people’s faces until they start to go, oh, I’ve heard this before, you know.

Renee: Or, yeah, you know, familiar and comfortable and trustworthy. It’s like that kind of thing. Oh, I know this, right? I love this.

Martin: Do either of you have a favorite song from the 14 on the album?

Paloma: Depend on my mood. I like playing. I like playing “All for the Money” because it’s just fun to play. It’s like Bluesy in the pocket because it comes in with a nasty drum fill…

Song of Sun & The Saint:  You get picked up in limousine. You got all those 90 inch screens. You got a chauffeur, that costs 10 g’s, it feels so good to live in green. Hey, hey, you’re all for the money, said. Hey, hey, you’re all for the money, said. Hey, hey, you’re all for the money. You got that money but you got no sense.

Martin: And you Reed. What’s your favorite?

Reed: Oh, man, that’s, yeah, that’s a tough one. I would say, uh, probably from 1 to 14. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Habit, “Habit You Can’t Break.” I think is my favorite to play. Yeah. “Habit You Can’t Break.”

Paloma: Cool.

Reed: Yeah. Huh?

Martin: Let’s hear some of that track.

Reed: Let’s hear it.

Song Sun & The Saint: You think you going to get your way it’s just another game you play. I see the lies that you tell you think I’m under your spill but I got things to say. Love is just a habit you can’t break. Got no some way. It don’t really matter what you take. Got no some way. With all those lies.

Paloma: It that good?

Reed: All the music talk.

Martin: Did we do a cover and have you recorded any cover songs?

Reed: No, we haven’t, but we’re planning on recording one. And, and, and you know, I think a lot of people record covers that are very well known, like everybody knows. Those covers. But the way we kind of want wanted to approach it is to find a cover that’s well known on kind of an underground level. Maybe it hasn’t completely just like exploded on mainstream, but it has done really well to where if we put it out, people may think it’s our song, but it’s familiar. So they go, oh, what’s that? You know? So that’s kind of our idea is we found an artist we really like. She’s an indie artist. We’re gonna cover her song and record it.

Martin: Okay. You’re planning on doing some touring, is that, is that right?

Paloma: Yep. Okay.

Martin: This year, uh, one question I want our audience to, um, understand is that you, you don’t travel with the whole set of drums when you play, am I right? What is the instrument that you carry with you and you guys play together? Uh, at our parties and our gatherings, as well as friends?

Reed: Well, she carries a banjo, usually.

Paloma: A banjo?

Reed: No, I’m just kidding.

Renee: A dangerous instrument.

Reed: Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I’m just kidding.

Paloma: You mean my kazoo? Yeah, my kazoo. No, I have this beautiful cajon that my brother and my sister-in-law gifted to me, that is from Spain. It’s a box, um, but they, they call it cajon cause it’s a Spanish instrument. But, um, that is more for like acoustic, like low key gatherings. But when we play live, I am on a drum set.

Martin: The entire set?

Paloma: Yeah, the whole thing.

Martin: Ah, okay. Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back.

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us.

Martin: So I saw you in concert with Berlin once and you came out, I thought you we’re gonna take a bow and you threw your drumsticks into the crowd. I mean, you didn’t throw them, you pitched them m. And they were very anxious to receive them. What is that about?

Paloma: You know, it’s kind of a rock and roll tradition.

Martin: Ah.

Paloma: Um, so if, you know, if your band’s popular enough, people will care to grab your drumstick. So it’s an honor really to be able to do that. And it’s, yeah, doing that with Berlin was a lot of fun.

Martin: What do you do for an encore for this? For when you have no more sticks?

Reed: Smash the guitar!

Paloma: Yeah, you keep that in the back of your mind. Cause I did play quite a few shows with them. And we did like a run of shows and I was passing out sticks. People are like, can I have more sticks? And I would like run backstage and get more. And then I was thinking like, oh my God, like, I can’t, I can’t give more away. I’m so sorry. Like, I need these for my next show. Or I’m like, I’m screwed.

Martin: What was it like playing at South by Southwest in Texas?

Paloma: Pretty crazy. It was. It was a wild. That’s a wild environment. But it was fun.

Reed: We didn’t, we didn’t know the songs either. We had literally just wrote the songs, and we were in the process of trying to figure out how to record them, and we, we kind of

Martin: So you had not recorded?

Reed: No.

Martin: When you were invited to come there. That’s a very, very popular festival. It’s not only music, but it’s film as well.

Reed: Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of pressure, and somehow we pulled through, and it was great. We met a lot of really cool radio guys who have our stuff and who have, you know. Um. I don’t know if they’ve spun it, but they said they were going to on their radio stations. But it was really cool because, you know, we were. There’s been a lot of things that have come through where it’s like, jump. And we’re like, okay. You know, even though we don’t know if we can jump. So it’s like, is this gonna work out? Or.

Paloma: You know, we didn’t have a website. We didn’t have an Instagram. We just went.

Reed: So we were a part of the whole thing, the event. Yeah.

Martin: That’s cool. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Do you have a favorite artist? Each of you are inspired by someone you admire?

Paloma: Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, I listen to an array of music, but I always go back to Dave Matthews Band as my favorite band of all time. They just make me so happy. Yeah.

Reed: Uh, yeah, I’ve been really into this new songwriter, Martin Sheen.

Renee: I hear he’s a poet.

Reed: Oh, yeah, that’s right.

Paloma: Yeah.

Reed: Yeah, he does poetry as well.

Renee: This man is really renaissance, let me tell you.

Reed: Yeah, he’s been in a few films, too.

Renee: He’s got a lot to say.

Paloma: Tell him about Stevie.

Reed: Oh, yeah. Well, Stevie Ray Vaughan’s my favorite artist from M. Austin, Texas, actually. From, uh. Uh, he’s a blues guitar player. And he passed away tragically in. In the 80s, but, uh, before I was even, you know, up and playing guitar. But I was showed to him by my, my stepdad when I was about 13 years old. And it was him in this blues dive, blues club. And he was playing so hard on his guitar that just sweat was pouring down. He had a cigarette that he would pin in the end of his guitar until. And it would burn and every once in a while, he would grab it and put it in his mouth and smoke it, and he wouldn’t stop. And, uh. And he. Much energy and heart and soul, and it just. As a kid, it just, like, struck me. And I remember when I was a kid, I would. I would try to emulate him by closing my eyes and really like feeling it. And eventually I started to kind of get it, you know, like, music’s all about you have to feel it. It comes from here, from your heart.

Martin: Yeah.

Reed: So, yeah, he’s.

Martin: If it’s not personal. It’s impersonal.

Reed: That’s right.

Martin: And if it’s impersonal, who really cares? Ah, right. What did you agree was, was the best track on the album?

Paloma: Do we still agree?

Reed: I feel like, for me, it’s “Habit,” because it’s the one that’s gotten the most attention. That’s what got us a licensing deal.

Martin Sheen: “Habit.”

Reed: “Habit You Can’t Break.”

Martin: Paloma, do you have one you want to share that didn’t get as much attention as you thought it deserved.

Paloma: This song called “Ninth and Evelyn.” We call it our alien song.

Martin: “Ninth and Evelyn” Let’s hear a piece of that.

Song: Sun & The Saint: She’s been stranded out at sea. I know she don’t remember me how Now I got a broken heart Wish we could take it back to the start now I used to see her where I work and I could see she had it worse She almost wound up in hearse. Until I took her by the hand. Oh, 9^th and Evelyn she was my best friend I wish I had the chance to run into her again. Oh, 9^th and Evelyn I used to hold her hand she’s lost with another man and I’m still out on 9^th and Evelyn.

Martin: I want to thank you so very much for coming. I’m, um, honored and very pleased to have had you here in our studio. What’s the name of our studio, Renee?

Renee: Well, here on, uh, the Martin Sheen podcast. Special. Special episode.

Martin: Is there anything you’d like to share before we sign off?

Paloma: We’re just, we’re happy to be here, and we’re happy to, to spread the love and the word of our, our work of art, our album, our baby. Um, so, yeah, thank you for having us. Really appreciate it.

Martin: Thank you so very much.

Reed: Thanks so much. Yeah, I would say we’re very grateful to be a part of what you guys are doing, too, because it’s very, it’s very inspirational as well.

Martin: Oh, thank you so much.

Reed: It’s really cool what you guys are doing. We’re. We’re definitely fans and we’ve been listening along as well, so.

Martin: Well, again, thank you both for joining us.

And so I invite you to delve further into the music I shared with you on this very special episode with Sun & The Saint. If you’ve enjoyed what you’ve heard here, please subscribe to my podcast, The Martin Sheen Podcast, with your host, yours truly, Martin Sheen, of course, wherever you find your podcast. Yeah, I gotta say that. And you can find a complete list of the music and titles of their songs that we played here at our website, themartensheenpodcast.com

I want to thank the people who make this podcast possible. My producer and research assistant, Renee Estevez, who assures me all this lovely music is copyright cleared and guaranteed to get listeners singing along with Sun and The Saint, who were worth every penny, by the way. And I want to thank our sound engineer and editor, Bruce Greenspan, the man behind these rich and seamless recordings. And to the memory of his dog, dear Gracie, our studio mascot, whose snoring is still greatly missed. And so, friends, we part with the prayer from Tagore.

Paloma: Wait, wait, no. Grandpa, you mean “Take Me Back to California” by Sun and the Saint.

Martin: Oh, I’m terribly sorry. Um, and so, friends, we part with another track from Sun & The Saint. “Take Me Back to California”

Thank you and enjoy.

Sun & The Saint: Wish they all could be only California dreams I could cross that line Headed for summertime Driving up and down the coastline Headed for the sunshine Looking for a smooth ride Let’s get stuck in paradise so take me back to California I’ll pass up all your advice on going back to California Go back just like 69 and I can’t wait till California. If I could go back there Never gonna leave again Live that West Coast way Always gonna make me stay Grow a little bit of the green vine Live a lot behind times This could be a good life Let’s get stuck in paradise so take me back to California I’ll pass up all your advice on going back to California Go back just like 69 and I can’t wait till California. Never know which way the sun will end. But you can count the stars and wonder where yeah let’s get stuck in paradise so take me back to California I’ll pass up all your advice on going back to California Throw back just like 69 and I can’t wait till California let’s get stuck in paradise so take me back to California I’ll pass up all your advice so I’m going back to California Go back just like 69 and I can’t wait till California. Mhm.

The Martin Sheen Podcast. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, distributed or transmitted in any form without prior written consent of the author and TE Productions.

The music of Sun and the Saint was included here in the podcast by copyright permission of Paloma Estevez and Reed Thomas Lawrence, who we thank for this opportunity to share their music.