The film “The Way” is often said to be the gift that keeps giving as it continues to encourage people to set off on the extraordinary pilgrimage in Spain and in this episode Martin shares his own fascination and personal experience along its path. In his inspired account Martin gives an in-depth look into his own pilgrims’ journey. This is followed by a candid and uplifting conversation at the mic with his son Emilio and the adventure they shared while making the movie “The Way” and how it changed both their lives on a deeply personal level.
A complete list of the writers and poets from Episode 8 The Journey
“Called to Walk The Way” by Ramon Gerard Estevez AKA Martin Sheen is included by granted copyright permission.
Consider This T.S. Eliot quote “Only those who risk…”
“Where the Mind is Without Fear” Rabindranath Tagore
Network Sting: MSW Media
Martin: Hello and welcome to the second season of the Martin Sheen Podcast with yours truly, Martin Sheen, of course. And I’m delighted to be back hosting this podcast pilgrimage where the destination is still the journey itself. Along the way, I plan to share Martin: stories and personal memories of some of the many people, place, places and events that have helped to shape my lifelong happy and continuing struggle as an artist and a man to unite the will of the spirit with the work of the flesh. I also hope to explore poetry as a powerful form of expression and communication by proxy, as it were, and how poetry is such a vital and necessary component of our spirituality and our public discourse. And from time to time, uh, I’ll invite friends, fellow actors, poets, scholars and family members to join our pilgrimage and, uh, discuss what inspires their artistic journey. And so, friends, let us begin.
Martin: Filming the Way on the Camino de Santiago de Compostela was one of the most important and rewarding experiences of my life, and it was by far the most satisfying role of my career. The Way was filmed in 2009 over an eight-week schedule and followed the pilgrimage route from St Jean Pierre de Port in the French Pyrenees, across northern Spain to Santiago and then on to Muxia for the final scene.
The entire production was a family affair. My son Emilio wrote and directed the film, and he played my character’s son Daniel. And our combined Camino experience inspired us to write a father son memoir called Along The Way, which was published in 2012. My daughter Renee played a feature role and she is, of course, the producer of this podcast. And my son Ramon played a key role in the final scene. My wife Janet produced the film, and my son Charlie provided the necessary funds to complete the film in post-production. My father, Francisco Estevez, came from a tiny village called Tui in Galicia, Spain not far from Santiago. And The Way is dedicated to him in loving memory.
But none of the above would have come to pass if not for my grandson Taylor Estevez, Emilio’s son, and a beautiful young girl named Julia Palacin. These two met on the Camino at the casa rual called El Molino in Burgos in 2000. Gradually, our two families grew together around the Camino, culminating with their wedding at El Molino in the summer of 2009, just before we began filming the Way.
Like the Camino itself, The Way is truly a gift that keeps on giving. Since the film’s release in 2011, it has inspired many thousands of people, mostly from the US And Canada to make the pilgrimage. And many of those have shared their Camino experiences with my family. But I must confess, I have never actually made the full pilgrimage on foot myself, outside of my performance in the film. And I still have this burning desire to do so. I think of the Camino as an opportunity to unite the will of the spirit with the work of the flesh. And though I know it’s useless to regret the many lost opportunities I had to fulfill my dream, I continue to imagine myself out on the Camino in all seasons at any number of familiar and sacred places. And my spirit soars.
There I am leaving St. John Pierre de Port in the French Pyrenees, walking to Roncesvalles, the first stop in Spain, then on M to Pamplona. And before long, I’m entering the gates at Burgos. Suddenly, I’m arriving in Leon, and I can see Cruz de Ferro in the distance. Then, before I know it, I’m heading down the rainy slopes in Galicia to the steps of the great cathedral of Santiago.
And all along the way, from every stranger and fellow pilgrim, from open door and window of every house and every town and village, from every mass and every church and every bunk and every shelter, from every patron and every bar, from every rock, every tree, every field and stream, from every wood and every hill and valley, from every bird and cloud in every sky, from every path and yellow shell that points the way to Santiago, from everywhere and everything and everyone. I hear the long-promised blessing of “Buen Camino!” Like a shouted hosanna. It is spontaneously and joyously bestowed. Yet I am reminded it is reserved solely for those on pilgrimage, and I’m not among them yet. Perhaps next year or the following year or sometime in the not-too-distant future, all that may change. Meanwhile, the way continues to fuel my imagination and inspire future pilgrims. Hola, Peregrinos. Buen Camino.
We’re gonna take a little break here, but I assure you there’s more to come. Stay tuned. Welcome back.
Martin: I’m so glad you stayed. And now I am delighted at this time to welcome to our mic for an interview one of my favorite people in all of the world, my son Emilio. We’re delighted to have you.
Emilio: Thank you. No, thank you. And I’m delighted to be here.
Martin: Well, um, I’m gonna back back up a little bit to the Way, which I’ve talked about it, bragged about it, uh, long to do part two. But that is, if not the most satisfying experience of my life, then it is the, uh, most impressive thing that I watched. I must have seen it at least a half a dozen times since then. I can still watch it. I’m still moved and intrigued. And it is one of the most perfect movies ever made.
Emilio: Thank you.
Martin: And I am just so proud of you and your work and your insight and you. The way you’re able to see through as a director and how you brought that together. Please share with us how that whole concept that I think started with your
Emilio: My son Taylor, it really started with you
Martin: Oh, now it’s my fault
Emilio: You going overseas because you’d want to, you know, you and Taylor, at the time was working as your assistant.
Martin: Yeah, he was my assistant. He was 19 years old. We’re talking about Taylor Estevez, your oldest child.
Emilio: And he didn’t know, know any better. He didn’t know to say, hey, you know, I’m not going to go to Europe with the old man, because, you know, hey, it was a free trip.
Martin: And he, he got stuck.
Emilio: Talk about, yeah, talk about walking into a wall. And then it became a door. You were the wall. And then Europe became his door.
Martin: Yeah. In 2003, um, I was in the summer break of the West Wing and, uh, we just lost my brother Al and I decided that there would, there would be no more funerals. We’re going to have a reunion. So I gathered and I got Ramon to organize the entire, um, community of my siblings. And so at that time, my brother Carlos, my brother Frank, my brother Joe, um, and uh, my sister Carmen were. Well, Carmen and Joe are still living, but the rest are all gone now. And I said, let’s go to Ireland and spend our mother’s 100th, uh, birthday, which was made 22nd, 1903. This would be 100 years to her. She died in 1951. She was 48. But I said, let’s go to her hometown and celebrate her life and just spend time with each other there where it all happened. And so everybody came and so Taylor got stuck with me and so did Matt Clark because everyone in Ireland thought he was my brother. So I thought, I, I better not go there without him. So we went there and after this three day celebration, which was so gratifying and beautiful, I said, look, uh, let’s all go to Spain and see if we can do the Camino. Crickets.
Emilio: Crickets.
Martin: Again, Taylor and Matt were stuck with me. So we went to Spain. And I don’t know how we came to it. I think Carmen suggested, my sister Carmen, living in Madrid at the time, said, why don’t you suss it out? I didn’t have enough time to do the Camino. I had to be back in LA to begin, uh, the fourth, uh, season of the West Wing in a few weeks. And so it was ludicrous to think that I could actually do the Camino, which is an 800 kilometer, uh, trip.
Emilio: Uh, it takes about six weeks.
Martin: If you’re young, you’ve got to dedicatem six weeks to it. And I thought, well, we can do this. So I finally came to my senses. We rented a car and we drove the Camino and one stop, we couldn’t find a place to, uh, go a refugio.
Emilio: Didn’t you go to Hornillo’s first? And Hornillo’s, it was a bar and the bar said, hey, I know this casa rural and you should, they take in pilgrims there and you should go there. And you did.
Martin: Yeah, we did. Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s off the beaten path, but yeah, they will come and pick you up if you call them. Yeah, that’s how it happened. Yeah. So we stayed overnight there and the next day we left. And it was so pleasant, wonderful. And Matt, uh, Clark was fed up with doing all the driving and it was a stick shift car. And so he said, you guys are going to learn how to uh, drive this thing. So Taylor took the first, uh, try driving it. And I, meanwhile, I started walking and I got lost and I got into this little. I said, I’m going to do the Camino. And I got lost and I’m afraid of dogs. And there was sleeping dogs everywhere I turned. And so I got lost avoiding them and they came looking for me and finally found me. And um, then I took a driving test. And so all three of us now knew how to drive the car. Now it’s getting dark. What do we do? Where do we go? So, well, we’re near that place El Molino, that we were at last night. Let’s go back and see if they got another room. And so we did. And they said, yes, we’re happy as Larry to have you. And so we got rooms and we were at the Pilgrim Supper.
Emilio: And, and by the way, English is, was not spoken. No, not even, I mean, beyond. Hello?
Martin: Yeah, just about it.
Emilio: That’s kind of it.
Martin: Yeah. So.
Emilio: Yeah. Ah, yeah.
Martin: So we were at this big table with all these people from all these different countries and Taylor was sitting next to me and he spoke enough Spanish to interpret for me. What’s he saying? What she’s saying. Say this, say that. Okay. He said, and suddenly a little girl appeared. Well, young girl appeared serving people. And she was on the other side of the table. She looked across at, uh, Taylor, and she was, she stopped serving. And she’s looking and I, who’s she looking at? And I look and he’s looking at. Who’s he looking at? He’s looking back at her. And the two of them are locked. It’s, it’s, it’s the, it’s the mask ball for Romeo and Juliet. It’s happening. And she says to him in Spanish, do you smoke? And he said, I do. She said, would you like to join me for a cigarette? I will. And he disappeared. They’ve been together since that moment. Uh, they were married there. And, uh, he started living there. And so for you to see him or, you know, you had to go to Spain. You had to go to Spain. So now, now, now the story’s yours.
Emilio: And so I went to see him on to celebrate his 21st birthday and, um, and surprised him. We flew in under cover of night and stayed at Carmen’s house and called him, pretending that it was the middle of the night.
Martin: Yeah.
Emilio: In Los Angeles, so that he wouldn’t, he, he would. And he saw that it was a, it was a California number, of course, and so he was none the wiser. And then I took the train up
Martin: to Burgos from Madrid.
Emilio: From Madrid and surprised him and stayed, uh, in Burgos and then visited the Molino and saw these folks coming in and out from all these different countries. I thought, well, this is fascinating. And what’s going on, you know, what are these people doing? And why are they, why, what is this community of pilgrims, of all things? I thought the pilgrimage is something that you only do when you go to the Hajj and you, you make pilgrimage to Mecca or you make pilgrimage to Israel. But Spain? It was completely, quite literally, foreign to me.
Martin: No pun intended.
Emilio: All pun intended! So I, so I, I, I came home and we started talking. And you said, hey, you know, how about we do this story about an old man? And he had two old guys and a young guy, and they walked the Camino. And I thought, that’s really boring.
Martin: And so it was a comedy.
Emilio: Yeah. Without the humor. So I began to craft this idea or craft a story around this idea that it was the loss of a son that brought the father over, that inspired him ultimately to find himself along the way. And that was ultimately, when I pitched that idea to you, you said, well, go. Let’s see what you’ve come up with. And I wrote a draft, completed it on January 29th. And you were, uh, scheduled to do the Graham Norton show, if you recall. And they gave you two tickets. Uh, and so I said, lets go to London.
Martin: To London?
Emilio: So I said, why don’t we go. I’ve got the script. Uh, uh, you know, I know some producers in London. I’ll talk to them about it. You do the Graham Norton show, and then we’ll go over and see Carmen and Taylor and we’ll do a location scout. And you, I think, didn’t read the script until we were actually on the plane.
Martin: I think that’s right.
Emilio: And you said, wow, this is good. It’s got. And it had some things in there that ultimately were tossed out, but the the bulk of it remained intact.
Martin: Uh, the father son.
Emilio: Exactly, the father son thing. And you objected to, um, the Dutchman and the partying and the dope smoking and the drinking. You said, people go out there for religious pilgrimage. They don’t go to party. So now, now he had this fantastical idea that it was all about the nature of the pilgrimage, was all about spiritual. That it wasn’t that that was the driving force behind everybody who does it. I was like, well, that’s not the case. I said, people come out here and party their asses off. People come out here looking for love. People are trying to get in shape. People are. It’s not just a spiritual. And that’s where, I mean, again, if there’s any sort of rift between us during the writing and the creation of the movie, I think you wanted it to be more overtly religious, where I, uh, was more spiritual. And I had no objection with the spiritual. I had objection with the religiosity of it.
Martin: It.
Emilio: And so. And objection is a strong word. I think it was more. I wanted to. I wanted to be inclusive. I didn’t want it anyone who saw the movie, Jews, Gentiles, Muslims, anyone, to see this movie and feel, uh
Martin: Uh, it’s not about that.
Emilio: It’s not that they weren’t included in the journey. It’s not for them.
Martin: It is for everybody, though.
Emilio: But, so we’re out on The We’re doing the location scout and we went to Rosanvia and we went to St. Jean Peter Port. We stayed at these places. And when we started, I don’t know if you remember, but Taylor said, let’s just drive on the Camino.
Martin: And we did.
Emilio: We took this rental car and we drove on the Camino and the four of us. And we came upon four, three or four pilgrims from the Czech Republic in the middle of Winter in the middle. It was February, and it was freezing. And he insisted that we give them their food. We give these pilgrims our food. Because, uh, they’re out here in the middle of nowhere. And here, take this sandwich. Take this. And one guy turns to us and he says, we have everything we need. And he pulls a giant bottle of Jack Daniels out of his backpack, and he shows it, and the three of them take a big swig, and they’re like. And then they said, Buen Camino.! And I looked at Martin and I said, there you have it. There’s the Dutchman. Yeah.
Martin: Uh, you’re right.
Emilio: There he is. These guys were not. They were not on some religious quest. Uh, they were partying. Uh, and so I just remember that moment, and I looked at you, and the light kind of went on in me and you, and you said, okay, I get it. I get it now. It can’t just be Martin’s way. It is The Way.
Martin: Yeah.
Emilio: And, uh. And then by September of that year, we were shooting.
Martin: Yeah. It’s amazing. Absolutely astonishing. Yeah.
Emilio: Um, so, yeah, and with a very small crew, we basically. We walked with 50 people.
Martin: Yeah.
Emilio: Uh, along. Along, along this 500 mild journey. Plus, because we continued on to Muxia, where you deposit the ashes, the vast
Martin: Majority of the film did take place on the actual community.
Emilio: On the actual community.
Martin: We’re talking about the Way. Trying to remember stories that we can share here on the podcast. And there’s some wonderful stories in there. I’m so happy that you came and shared.
Emilio: Oh, man.
Martin: We’ll sign off with that. Thanks for joining us.
Martin: Consider This quote from T.S. Eliot. Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
Martin: I invite you to delve further into the works of the poets I shared with you, and I hope you seek out writers and poets whose work speaks to your hearts and minds with the power to inspire your life. If you’ve enjoyed what you heard here, please subscribe to my podcast, the Martin Sheen Podcast, with your host, yours truly, Martin Sheen. Of course, wherever you find your podcasts. Yeah, I have to say that you can find a complete list of the poets and titles of their poems that I’ve chosen at our website, themartensheenpodcast.com
I want to thank the people who make this podcast possible. Our producer and research assistant, Renee Estevez, who assures me that the Internet is a real thing and a safe place if not used off label. And our sound engineer and editor, Bruce Greenspan, the man behind these rich and seamless recordings and to his dog Gracie, our studio mascot who snores in perfect pentameter.
And so, friends, we part with the prayer from Tagore.
Where the heart is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action—
Into that heaven of freedom (my Father) let our country awake. Amen
The Martin Sheen Podcast all rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, distributed or transmitted in any form without prior written consent of the author and TE Productions.
The story called to Walk the Way by Ramon Gerard Estevez, AKA Martin Sheen, is included here by granted copyright permission
