In this special episode of Martin’s podcast he invites his son, Charlie Sheen to join him at the mic. Together they tackle the epic baseball poem “Casey at the Bat” and then share some father son time talking about their personal and professional lives. It’s an open, plainspoken conversation rich with candid stories and more than a few unexpected discoveries along the way.
A complete list of the writers and poets from The Sheens Special Episode
“Casey at the Bat” Ernest Lawrence Thayer
Martin
Hello and welcome to the Martin Sheen Pod–
Hey everyone, Charlie Sheen here and I am taking over my dad’s podcast for a special episode. You’re getting a twofer, me, Charlie Sheen and my dad, Martin Sheen, sharing stories, debating poetry and maybe even talking about some serious s***. Great to be here and I gotta say I love what you’re doing, Pop, but let’s face it, if we’re gonna talk about that archaic poem, Casey at the Bat, I gotta put my own spin on it.
Welcome to the show, Charlie.
Martin
Well, okay, that sounds good, but what do you know about hosting a podcast?
Charlie
Who cares? The good news is I know you and that’s the beauty of it. So let’s just have some fun and see what happens.
Okay, I think I’m with you, but what are we going to call this special episode of my podcast?
Hmm. I think something, I don’t know, completely outside the box, like maybe the sheens.
then let’s do this right. Hello, and welcome to the Sheen’s Podcast special episode. Let us begin. Batter up.
Charlie .
And welcome to the Sheen’s Podcast special episode.
Martin .
So, “Casey at the Bat” whose idea was this? I was yours. Really? I thought it was one of your favorite poems. No, in fact, truth be
Charlie .
No, in fact, truth be told, the first time I actually ever read it in this lifetime was during our recording of it. Should we have a listen? I mean, we might as well.
Should we have a listen?
Charlie
It sounds like you’re in the 17th century and I’m in the early ‘90s. You know what I’m saying? I mean, you sound vintage and regal and connected to it and you freaking wrote it. I sound like the guy you grabbed off the corner. I don’t think so. All right, keep going. Let’s see what-
Alright, keep going. Let’s see what else we got.
Charlie
Pause. How do we know Blakely is despised? Or that the other guy’s a foot in head. Exactly. There’s no context. He’s just assuming that everybody kind of has their backstory of these players. And like where in the season are they? Yeah, that’s true too. At the start or the end of the season. Right. It feels like, I mean, they’ve made such a deal about this one significant specific at bat.
or that the other guy’s a pudding head. Exactly. There’s no context. None. He’s just assuming. Yeah. That everybody kind of has the back story. Exactly. Yeah. And like where in the season are they? Yeah, that’s true too. They’re either at the start or the end of the season, wouldn’t you say? Yeah. feels like, I mean, you’ve made such a deal about this one significant specific at bat. It’s the bottom half of the ninth in the home, right? Yeah. What is…
It has to be right, right? What is what like what are the stakes of this game? I don’t know. I mean, are they are they facing the same picture? Who are they playing? Who are they playing? Is it is it hidden in here somewhere?
Yeah, what did Blake and and what’s his name do?
Are they facing the same picture? That’s true. I never thought of that. Is it hidden in here somewhere? Who is the road team? You’re right. Yeah. Hadn’t thought about that. Was there a specific game? there? Because I did a little bit of research on this after we did it. you did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The one thing that I did look into, was that Casey was based on. who was that? Because it.
Charlie
Hmm. Was there a specific game? there? Because I did a little bit of research on this after we did it, of course. Yeah, I didn’t. Yeah. The one thing that I did look into though was that who Casey was based on. Because it predates Ruth significantly. You know, but they still, they don’t know. Yeah. What kind of threat is he really?
yeah, I’d say. Who he was, yeah. This is true.
other than being this giant guy that rubs dirt all over himself. You know, what are we doing here? Mighty Casey. Mighty Casey. Yeah, it is. Right. What was Casey’s last name? Casey at the, the, yeah, it’s bat. Middle name is at the.
What are we doing here? Mighty Casey. It’s the symbol. It’s the image more than the reality. What was Casey’s last name in this poem?
Casey at the bat. At the bat. the bat. way is that done. Yeah, it’s just interesting that you just fall out of the sky right into this game and you’re supposed to just go along with In the last, yeah. Being assumed. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Go on. Here we go.
Charlie
Yeah, it’s just interesting that you just you fall out of the sky right into this game and you’re supposed to just go along with everything that’s being assumed, you know? All right, where were we? Sorry.
Charlie
Can we pause? What is like a writhing picture? He’s writhing. Right, right, right. But why that specific adjective? Why that description? Well, he’s… It does generate some curiosity. you’re not totally focused on, my God, how do I say all this vintage shite? And you can kind of take a step back and get a feeling for what this thing’s about. All right.
He’s writhing.
Martin
Well, he’s, uh, I’ll say took a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Charlie
Visage.
You
Martin
Yeah.
Yeah.
Charlie
You can feel more so me than you an increase in the pace as you get towards the end because you’re like, my gosh, I’m almost out of this maze. that was the end, right? That’s one of the ends. This thing will never end.
increase in the pace as you get towards the end. Like, my gosh. Yeah. I’m almost out of this maze. That’s one of the ends.
Martin
We continue with this special episode of the Martin Sheen podcast with my guest, Charlie Sheen, and part two, the interview.
Charlie, the year was a challenging and productive year for you to say the least. Your autobiography was published just as the documentary, aka Charlie Sheen, was presented on Netflix. Did you have any expectations or anxiety about how they would be received? Or how did you feel when you saw the documentary and you read your autobiography?
Charlie, the year was a challenging and productive year for you to say the least. Your autobiography was published just as the documentary, aka Charlie Sheen, was presented on Netflix. Did you have any expectations or anxiety about how they would be received or how did you feel when you saw the documentary and you read your autobiography?
Hi, it’s nice to be here. I’m fine, how are you? It’s interesting because the tone of my intro had something sort of ominous about it. Like I’m going to tell a story about the night my ship sank to the bottom of the harbor with like people on board. So jolly. Yes.
Alright, let me start again. Let me start again.
Martin
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Martin
So, Charlie, the year , which is just ending, was so challenging and productive for you.
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it was a doozy. It was a doozy. Yes, they debuted within like six hours of each other. They should have made the doc play when you opened the book.
Congratulations, your autobiography was published just as the documentary, aka Charlie Sheen, premiered on Netflix.
Did you have… I was going to ask you about the recording because in fact you recorded the book here in the studio. I can in fact, yeah. So, you know, I heard you mentioned that you were pleased with the recording.
In that very chair that you’re sitting in. Yeah, can you feel the vibes? Nice
Martin
And then it went very well. How does one get it? Where do you purchase the audiobook? Amazon. Amazon, okay. Fair enough.
and then it went very well. How does one get it? Where do you purchase the audiobook? Amazon. Amazon. Amazon, yeah. There’s also bookachine.com and a few websites like that, but I think the easiest place to locate it, book and audiobook is Amazon. Okay, which did you prefer? I preferred the written. You did? I liked the recording.
Okay. Okay. Okay, which did you prefer?
Martin
You did?
The gentleman to your right might debate that. Yes, yes, Bruce G. So, yeah, we had a producer. He thought that, I mean, he was terrific, but he was willing to move on quite frequently. Did you notice? And I just, you know, when you can tell.
gentleman to your right might debate that. Talking about our engineer, Bruce Greenspan.
Martin
Yeah, we had a producer. He thought that, I he was terrific, but he was willing to move.
Yeah. Yeah.
that it didn’t click, that it didn’t have that rhythm, didn’t have that thing, how you heard it before you said it. So I reread stuff, I mean, easily five, six, sometimes times. I mean, would you agree? Yeah. No, I was a bit of a perfectionist about it, but at the same time I was kind of tasked with not wanting it to feel manufactured or forced. I wanted to keep it conversational.
agree? was real. No, I was a bit of a perfectionist about it. Okay. At the same time, I was kind of tasked with not wanting it to feel manufactured or forced. wanted to keep it conversational. Yeah. But still focused on the details.
but still focused on the details of the mood and all the description and the tone of the stories, you know? So you were pleased with the final result? I haven’t listened to it. You’ve never heard it? I haven’t, no. No, because I kind of feel, not kind of, I do feel that it’s a bit of a fool’s errand because I don’t know what would be gained from that.
Martin
and the tone of the stories. Yeah. Okay. So you were pleased with the final result? I haven’t listened to it. You’ve never heard it? I haven’t. No. Wow.
Charlie
I know what I learned doing it, but then am I then to influence myself with my own work from something that’s kind of locked in a time capsule?
But you didn’t have any choice for the final selection of what takes were used in the book.
For the book you’re talking, yeah. Yes and no. Because if it stays sort of, you know, just kind of locked in that mystery, then there’s no chance for any disappointment. Because if I own the memory just from my point of view, just from my chair, then attached to that, the final outcome that I didn’t have a hand in.
Yeah, aren’t you curious about what they decided to use?
Martin
I’m bringing the memory just from my point of view, just from my chair, then attached to that, the final outcome that I didn’t have a hand in. Then it can, and I’ve had this happen in the past, it can tarnish that original experience. I see. You’re referencing like something you filmed and did a number of takes and then you had to let it go. You were not the one to make the choice of take to be used.
Then it can and I’ve had this happen in the past. It can tarnish that original experience
Correct, yeah. Yeah, and the most specific example of that was when I hosted Saturday Night Live back in or , somewhere in there, and I never watched it. And I went a couple years without watching it because I really enjoyed the experience. I mean, it’s a lot of work and it’s pretty complicated. Anybody who hasn’t done it has really no idea what they’re stepping into.
Is this it?
Martin
Yeah, Yeah, I can relate. No, no, wanted to find a place to hide and quickly to know that wasn’t me. No, no.
when you finished that night was your first thought, wow, I can’t wait to do this again. Yeah. Mine, mine neither. Yeah. Mine neither. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was, that was one and done. But, I, I, had just amazing memories from the night and they were all, they were all surreal and they sort of existed in that, like those Polaroids that drift past in the mist, you know? and, and then
Yeah, I too.
Yeah.
Charlie
Tony Todd, who everybody knows, my dear friend of a thousand years, and he’s in the dock and he a lovely presence in the dock and a lovely presence in my life. He talked me into one night watching the SNL. okay. Yeah. I hated it. I hated it. And I made a decision that night inside that moment that I was never going to be led to that place again by anyone.
Tony Todd, who everybody knows, your dear friend of a thousand years, he’s in the dock.
Martin
and a lovely presence in my life. talked me into one night watching the SNL. Okay. And what was your response?
Martin
Were you ever invited to do a second turn on Saturday Night Live? I was not. Neither was I, incidentally.
I was not. I was not. They wanted to throw me. Yeah, how about that? We got that in common. No, they asked if I wanted to throw my hat in the ring and sort of add it potentially to the whole promotional tour book doc, you know, and I just said no. No, no. I could have done that. Yes.
Yeah. No. No. Okay. You could have thrown mine in there. so just getting back to having never listened to the audio book, but maybe on some road trip in the future, Carmel, something that times out. I think it’s eight hours from now. I will put it on. If I get in a car accident and then my excuse is…
But anyway, so just getting back to having never listened to the audio book, but maybe on some road trip in the future to Carmel or something that times out, something that’s eight hours from here, I will put it on. But if I get in a car accident and then my excuse is, hey man, sorry, I got distracted. was listening to my book. Like, where do you go from there? I mean, if you’re the arresting…
Hey man, sorry I had to distract you. I was listening to my book. What do you go from there? mean, if you’re the arresting or the attending cop, how do you interpret that? Well, if I arrive and the audio book is still playing, I think I might be curious as to what are you listening to there, Mr. Sheen?
Charlie
or the attending cop, how do you interpret that?
Book is still playing.
But the book made the bestselling list for the New York Times. It did, yeah. How you feel about that? Were you surprised? It was exciting. It was exciting, yeah. Because I think when you put that much work into something and then it’s like, you gotta let it go, you gotta hit send to the universe, that there is kind of that fantasy, that thing about being referred to as a bestselling author, and you’ve never done it before and you did it all by yourself and it’s like, all right.
The book made the best-selling list for the New York Times nonfiction, course. How did you feel about that? Were you surprised? It was exciting. Yeah.
Martin
Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Charlie
No, that’s fine that you didn’t. But it was interesting. I landed at number four, which was, I think, respectful, you know? And then the next week, stayed at number four, which they said they hadn’t, they’d never seen before. B . it either pops up or just disappears. Yeah. And then it went to seven, which was weird. They thought that because usually, you know, double fours, then you’re out of the top .
Yeah. Yeah, I’ll say. then the next week stayed at number four. Uh-huh. Which they said they hadn’t, they’d never seen before. Uh-huh. It either goes higher or lower. Yeah. It either pops up or Disappears. Yeah. Yeah. And then it went to seven. Uh-huh. Which was weird. They thought that it usually, you know, double floors, then you’re out of the top . Yeah. And then it hit seven and it kind of slipped down to number nine. Yeah. And that was great.
and then it hit seven, then it kind of slipped down to number nine. And that was great. It was like, was all I, I shouldn’t say needed or wanted, but I was more than happy with that first month. But the audio book would gangbusters.
That was all I needed, wanted, but I was more than happy with that first one. The audiobook was Gangbusters. And tell us about that because the sales of that outstripped the book. Two to one. Wow.
sales of that outstripped- Like two to one. Two to one, yeah. And they don’t include the audio numbers as far as the bestselling thing goes. They don’t? No. No. So had that been a part of it, it would have been a runaway number one. Yeah. Yeah. So in my mind, in my mind, I mean, let’s face it, you know.
Martin
Yeah. people, yeah. And I’ve heard you, I’ve heard you say that, you know, people don’t read today. They don’t. They really don’t, do they? Yeah. It was a little, I don’t want to say abrasive. You know, there’s like that one moment that you always drive home with. Yeah. Like it could have been. It could have been this instead of what I left there. Yeah. Maybe should have been there. Yeah.
They don’t. They don’t. Yeah. And I was a little, I don’t want to say abrasive. You know, there’s like that one moment that you always drive home with that you kind of revisit, like you could have been. Yeah. Maybe should have been that when Julia, know, Taylor’s wife, you know, was so complimentary about the book and I was like, my God, thank you. I’m so flattered. And then, and then it was revealed about three sentences later.
Yeah. then it was revealed about three sentences later that she listened to it. yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I made a comment, something akin to.
that she listened to it, you know? And then I made a comment, something akin to, yeah, but I didn’t write the book by speaking it. Did you hear when I said that or you were in a different room? I was in a different Yeah. And, you know, was kind of ass-holy, you know, but she got it.
Yeah.
Martin
I didn’t write the book by speaking it. Did you hear when I said that? No, I was in a different room. I was kind of asshole, but she got it. But I could see the expression her face change. She saw that that wasn’t something that pleased me.
But I could see the expression on her face change when she saw that that wasn’t something that pleased me. But the step back from that was get over yourself. You know, a woman with a child who’s how old? Three, four, six. Where have I been? Anyway, has the energy of a three-year-old. And, you know, how tied her hands are, and are full rather daily. And then I’m like,
get over yourself. A woman with a child who’s how old? Six. Six? Where have I been? Anyway, it the energy of a three-year-old. And how tight her hands are, or full rather, daily. And then I’m given a grief for not sitting down and committing to something that requires both hands. Yes, it does. Yes, I can attest to that.
given a grief for not like sitting down and committing to something that requires both hands. Yeah.
And you went on the road, you did more interviews for both the book and the documentary than you probably have done for any film or television show or any other event in your entire life, am I right? Yeah. Can you recount how many interviews you actually did and some of the major events in cities across the United States?
Charlie
And you went on the road. You did.
Charlie
Correct. Correct. was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah. I
Charlie
Gosh, I I would guess because it was over the course of like four months, was from, well, the prep for that whole tour started in, gosh, mid July and then started doing some of the lead press like to print stuff in like- People magazine. Yes. And then had that big piece in the New York Times, which is pretty good. And so that was-
Yeah, yeah.
Martin
Yeah.
Yeah. You appeared on the cover of People Magazine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Did you have a favorite one or a show that you would do again to promote something or just to appear again as a guest?
mid-August started all that and then September, October. Yeah, it was about five months. It was a lot. I don’t know how many I did. would guess , , maybe. Do you have a favorite one or a show that you would do again?
I would do again. I would go back to the guys at KFC at Barstool Sports. They were terrific. I would do Joe Rogan again. mean, I’ll tell you when we’re not recording who I won’t do again. just out of respect. Not even close. Not even close. No. I hope this is a standing invite.
see it.
Martin
really? Okay. All right, yeah. That would not include mine, would it? No, not even close. Okay, fine. Keep rolling. Well, of course it is.
But it was interesting, the deeper I got into it and the more appearances I made, started not just focusing on what my responsibilities were to promote or to tell stories or just be entertaining. I started really clocking and taking in a lot of just the mechanics of the process and the aesthetics. And so…
you know, entertaining.
Martin
just the mechanics of senses, the aesthetics. And so, I mean, there’s a few where I spent the whole time, you know, pretending like I was engaged and like passionate, remembering stuff, like happy to be there. None of that was true because all I was thinking about was the fricking chair that I was stuck in. Really? know, they had the option to choose how many chairs on planet Earth? What are we talking? Yeah.
I mean, there’s a few where I spent the whole time, you know, pretending like I was engaged and like passionately remembering stuff and like happy to be there. None of that was true because all I was thinking about was the fricking chair that I was stuck in and that these people had a choice, you know, they had the option to choose how many chairs on planet earth? What are we talking? Several million conservatively types of chairs over the years, right?
Several million conservatively types of chairs. Yes, wherever people sit. Exactly. just that they wound up with like they decided they landed on this chair. OK. Did you feel a lot of pressure with with from the chair? No, from the interview from the. it is OK. Well, you’re as welcome as the flowers here. I hope you’re enjoying this as much as I am. I am.
Exactly. Yeah. People like to And, and just that they wound up with, like, they decided they landed on this chair.
from the chair? This chair is pretty good. Just yeah, you’re off the hook.
Charlie
I I am. Yes. Thank you. Likewise. But I’m not trying to sound like an ungrateful nitpicker, but it was just sort of just from a production mindset, just from a guy that grew up on your sets, then evolved into my own. And it’s just something I know. It’s just something I have expert level. It’s not-
I’ll very grateful to you, Charlie.
Martin
Yeah.
Martin
It’s not coming from a place of judgment, it’s just observation and a want for people to stop missing the obvious. Especially in a situation that should be more guest-centric. That’s what I found. A lot of these things were more host-centric. I see. Did you have a list of questions that they ran by you? They would get notes from the publicist.
coming from a place of judgment, it’s just observation and a want for people to stop missing the obvious, especially in a situation that should be more guest-centric. That’s what I found. A lot of these things were more host-centric. Yeah.
Charlie
buy you? They would get notes from the publicist, the first publicist, and she was pretty cool, Kate. And then she would tell them, here’s the stuff you can’t talk about. And then they’d come to me and they’d say, we’re, you know, there’s a thing, we got a list of things we can’t talk about. And I would say, you can talk about anything. Because the way I approached it, you know, from even the early piece I did with Michael Strahan.
She was pretty cool. Kate. And then she would tell them, here’s the stuff you can’t talk about. Yeah. And then they’d come to me and then…
Martin
And they’re talking about. He’s on ABC. Good Morning America. Yeah. Michael Strahan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m a fan as well.
He’s an anchor on Good Morning America. Terrific guy. Lovely man. And yeah, I just came to this realization and I actually told this, I said this to Michael’s producer, said, it’s, you know, don’t put something in a book and a doc that come out basically on the same day and then decide you’re not gonna talk about the things in both of those projects. You can’t do that.
Don’t put something in a book and a doc that come out basically on the same day and then decide you’re not going to talk about things in both of those. You can’t do that. Because she told me stories about people that wrote these super.
Because she told me stories about people that wrote these super revealing, compelling, very personal books. then they go to, is the producer on Good Morning America. Then the writer would, the author would come on the show and freeze up and say, I can’t talk about that again. And then they’re like, yeah, but it’s right here. It’s printed. Yeah. So she found that refreshing. I just thought it was, you know, common sense.
She is your…
Martin
Yeah, but it’s right here. here. Okay. Yeah. Okay. She found that refreshing.
Charlie
sequel to the book. I think I’d rather just live it. That was a challenging aspect of the book was trying to figure out how to end it. And I had a few more stories that I wanted to pad in there and I actually wrote them and then read them connected to what was published and then read them without and then
Really? Yeah. I had a few more stories that I wanted to pad in there and I actually wrote them and then read them connected to what was published. Yeah, what was published and read them without the slimmed down version, rearranged version. I just rearranged it right into the trashcan because I decided that it was okay.
you know, the slim down version and then the rearrange version. And I finally just rearranged it right into the trash can. Yeah. Because, I decided that it was okay that there was no wrong way to end a story that’s still being told. And so I kind of, yeah, thank you. I went with a bit of a soprano’s ending.
But there was no wrong way to end the story that’s still being told. Yeah. That’s a good point. Yeah. Thank you. I’m a bit of a soprano. Well, I can tell you this, that your mother was very pleased with the kudos to her at the end of the book. And she’s here with us now, Janet. Mom, right behind me. Mama Sheen is here.
right on, right on. There she is. Mom, right behind me. Pardon my back. Pardon my back. I’m trying to keep dad in a… Can I say I both sides of I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. I’m trying to keep you in the cone of focus. You’ve mentioned that…
Martin
Okay. You’ve mentioned that you are now in the process of forming your own podcast. Yeah. Okay.
thinking about it. I’m thinking about it because that’s another thing that that tour generated was a real curiosity. Not just what’s wrong with this chair, but why am I in the guest chair is how I started. only one in all of show business and in the public eye that does not have It does not have a podcast. Interesting. never thought that it would be…
Right.
Martin
Yeah, well, you’re the only one in all of show business and in the public eye that does not have a podcast. Yeah, so what’s the story there, Charlie?
Charlie
type of experience that I’d be drawn to. Yeah. Because I thought, well, geez, and this will sound, there’s no way to present this that isn’t going to be predominantly arrogant. People would say you should do a podcast and I would say, yeah, but I’m going to run into that thing more times than not that I’m just more interesting than most of my guests. And yes, I said that out loud in a few.
People would say you should do a podcast and I would say, yeah, but I’m going to run into that thing.
just more interesting than…
Okay
in a few settings. I did say that out loud and I’m sorry. That’s why I prefaced it. You know, that’s why I had to frame it. I had to tee it up. And I’m OK accepting that that’s true. Not today. It’s not true today. Yes, I said most of. Yeah. I’m going to get yelled at for that one. Bring it on. I will answer all the mail.
Martin
Accepting that that’s true. Not today. Not today. This is the one exception. Thank you so much. is most important.
Okay, but let’s just talk about the possibility of you’re doing a podcast. Would it be solo or would you have a co-host? Male, female, relative? Are you auditioning people? No, I’m just fishing about here.
you’re doing a podcast, would it be solo or would you have a co-host? I would like to have a co-host. You would? Yeah. Male, female? Relative? I don’t know. I haven’t decided. haven’t decided. you auditioning people? I might be, yes. What are you getting at, Dad?
No, I think it’s just good to have other people in the room because I watch a ton of YouTube these days and I watch a ton of these shows and it’s just research. you prefer if you were doing one that it was on video or Zoom or film or audio like we are? It would be both. Both? Yeah, it would be audio and visual.
You Yeah. Would you prefer if you were doing one that it was on video or Zoom or film or audio like we are? Both? Yeah, really? Okay, good. Yeah. Please stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
Martin
And we’re back. Well, do you want to talk a little bit about what’s impressed us over the last few years is your parenting. A little bit. Yeah, we are so very fond of all of your children, but we’ve gotten to know Bob and Max, and we’re extremely fond of those two wonderful characters. And we thank you for bringing them into our lives. What’s the best part of parenting?
Well, do you want to talk a little bit about what’s impressed us over the last few years is your parenting. Oh, wow. I appreciate that. Thank you. All of your children. we’ve gotten to know Bob and Max and we’re extremely fond of those two wonderful characters. That’s awesome. You should thank you for bringing them.
Martin
Well, let’s start with the worst part.
Well that’s not the worst part.
The expectations. Really? Yeah. Of them to you or you to? What I expect from them. I see. Yeah. Most of it rooted in absolute fantasy. Give us an example. It’s just, it’s the curse of the Virgo. It’s the curse of the Virgo and just being, you know, wanting, you know, my domestic space, my environment. You’re talking about your zodiac sign. Yeah.
Really? Of them to you or you to them? What I expect from them. I see, yeah, yeah.
Martin
Give us an example, please.
Martin
You’re talking about your zodiac sign. What does the Virgo want? Order. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and just wanting to just order. I need order. I need physical order. I need things where they belong. So the chaos of this interview doesn’t enter into your… This is very orderly. because it’s not just about the words. It’s about the angle of your mic and how evenly your headphones are worn. I mean, it’s stuff like that.
So the chaos of this interview doesn’t enter into your calm space.
Yeah.
Even
Martin
mean, it’s stuff like that.
It’s stuff like that when I talk about the curse of the Virgo. These are too far from each other. And that should be next to it. That should be next to it. That’s better. That makes me feel better. But yeah, no, it’s expectations and, know, that’s on me. That’s on me. Not all of it. Not all of it. Because I don’t believe in passive parenting. I think that the, you know…
I don’t believe this. Is this true? You’re bottles around and Kleenex boxes and so forth. Okay, good. Both of your…
Martin
Okay, so.
Martin
Uh-huh. No, clearly you’re very involved, Charlie.
Yes, yeah. But as far as like, you know, whatever they do is fine. They’ll come to it one day. And when they do, I hope we’re all there to celebrate. no, we’re not. We’re not doing that. We’re not doing that.
no, no, no, that’s not your style, no. In fact, if you don’t mind my mentioning, you were very, very involved in both of the lads getting their driver’s license recently. Tell us about that, please.
Yes, I was. Yes, I was. Yeah, it was a bit of an odyssey. Bob passed his written and Max failed it. But then Max passed his behind the wheel and Bob failed it. So do you see how those Legos fit? Yeah. I did. I did. And then it was really about timing. And I was having this procedure done and I got back into town.
Yeah, I see. Yeah, so you saw it coming. Yeah, okay. Yeah
Charlie
the seventh because it was the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. And so I had this thing on the ninth so it had to be done on the eighth. And so I told Bob I said look you only have to be good enough right now just to pass the test then we’ll work on like the overall scope of driving. I said so Jess I think it put too much pressure on him. I think he overthought it. He failed. Yeah.
December th. so I had this thing on the ninth. So it had to be done on the eighth. Okay. And so I told Bob, said, look, you only have to be good enough right now just to pass the test. Then we’ll work on like the overall scope of driving. Yeah. Okay. I think it put too much pressure on Okay. I he over thought it. And what happened? He failed.
He failed miserably. The guy who I knew was a problem when I met him, I just knew he was a problem. I knew we were sunk. The guy grabbed the wheel in the middle of a green arrow turn for Bob. I guess anytime someone that’s not the driver in that situation grabs the wheel, it’s an instant fail. And so you can’t take it again for two weeks. It was another thing where Bob was leaving.
I it was a problem. I knew we were sunk. The guy grabbed the wheel in the middle of a green arrow turn. And I guess anytime someone that’s not the driver in that situation grabs the wheel, it’s an instant fail. And so you can’t take it again for two weeks. It was another thing where Bob was leaving to go to, you know, with Max to go to Aspen.
to go to, you know, with Max to go to Aspen for Christmas, New Year’s. And so it got down to this thing where it was, there was only one day because he was leaving the next day and I didn’t want this thing lingering. Cause it wasn’t just his, you know, freedom for him, it’s freedom for me. Yeah. And that’s not listed in the, in the order of priority. So, and then there was that incredible crazy storm.
Martin
Christmas, New Year’s, and so it got down to this thing where there was only one day because he was leaving the next day and I didn’t want this thing lingering. Because it wasn’t just his freedom for him, freedom for For you, yeah. And that’s not listed in the order of priority. Okay. And then there was that incredible crazy storm, that atmospheric river that drenched the South.
that atmospheric river that drenched the Southland. And so the morning of, you know, we were already working out, we got to cancel this thing, we got to figure out then, okay, you’re going to get back on this day. And then it’s turning into another thing where it’s the one day, because you got to schedule these things way in advance. And all the weather reports, everybody, everything that we tuned into was saying, do not leave the house today, stay home, you know, and
Yeah. And so the morning of, you know, we were already working out, we got to cancel this thing, we got to figure out then, okay, you’re going to get back on this day. And then it’s turning into another thing where it’s about one day. Yeah. You’ve got to schedule these things way in advance. Yeah. And all the weather reports, everybody, everything that we tuned into was saying, do not leave the house. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the
That we could get this done. Yeah. I said to Bob, I said, look, this is a much better story to tell later on if it all goes well, if we just roll the dice and get out there and see what happens. We got there safely. He took the test. He aced it. It was pouring. Yeah. He said that there was one moment, one stretch of road for about a mile.
only day that you could get this done and so you did it. And so you and Bob headed north. This is a much better story to tell later on. Okay. just roll the dice and get out there and see what happens. And what did happen? We got there safely. Yeah. We took the test. Yeah. We aced it. Was it raining? It was pouring. Okay, good. More power to him. He said that there was one moment, one stretch of road for about a mile that they were
Charlie
that they were driving through a puddle, a flooded street, about inches deep. But it was cool because it sort of padded, it was a for any mistakes he might’ve made. He could just blame it on the weather. But also good for him that he got his license in conditions like that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and then he was like, hey, can I drive home? And I was like, not a chance.
flooded street about inches deep. Wow. But it was cool because it sort of
Martin
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. like, hey, can I drive home? And I was like, not again. That’s where the story always goes bad. I tell this five years later from a wheelchair away. I should have driven. I told him I was driving the quick.
Because that’s where the story always goes bad. Like someone tells it five years later from a wheelchair or whatever. And they’re like, I should have driven. I told him when we left, I’m driving both ways. You know what I’m saying? I just said, no, this is a complete plan. This is not a plan that’s open to adjustments. Yeah. So.
I gotcha, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, are you able to relate your own teenage years or even younger with the lads now that you’re, you know, you’re in charge?
your own teenage years or even younger with the left now that you’re, you know, you’re… Yeah, no, I can for sure. It’s just sometimes…
Just some
Charlie
Telling stories from my youth to my sons, it requires more energy than just a normal story to someone who’s already up to speed with everything. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because you got to give kids these days the backstory on everything, everything. And then if you make just…
than just a normal story to someone.
Martin
Yeah, okay. You gotta give kids these days the backstory on everything, everything. And then if you make, you know, just references or people or whatever, just to add colors to your story, you have to explain. Okay, give us an example. give us an example.
References or people and whatever just to add color to your story. You have to explain Who all those people are? Like if I say I’ll never forget the day I met Gene Hackman and who’s Yeah, who’s Gene Hackman? curious I did. Yeah Yeah He was I went to Westwood to see JFK you narrate the opening
Okay. Is that a true story? Okay. Who’s Gene Hackman? I’m curious now. I didn’t know you met him. I did, yeah. He’s one of my favorite actors. God rest him.
Martin
see JFK, you narrate the opening, I wanted to see it opening day first showing. I was there and I look over and there’s Gene Hackman. Watching the film? No, in the street ready to buy a ticket. outside. I walked up and I said, I’m sorry to bother you Mr. Hackman. And I put out my hand and he looked at me and he said, no autographs,
Oliver Stone’s JFK. Yeah. And I wanted to see it opening day, first showing. So I was there and I look over and there’s Gene Hackman. Watching the film? No, in the street, ready to buy a ticket. So I walked up and I said, I’m sorry to bother you, Mr. Hackman. And I put out my hand and he looked at me and he says, no autographs, kid. No joke. No autographs, kid.
You never seen him before since. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
And I said, I’m not looking for an autograph, Mr. Hackman. Just want to shake your hand. He was like, all right, that’s fine, I guess. And he shook my hand, went in the theater. That’s my whole Gene Hackman story. You never seen him before? No, no. Yeah, no autographs, kid. So, but see, I can’t, if I were to share that with them, there’s that long detour to explaining filling them in on Gene Hackman. They didn’t have a clue. No, no.
They filling them in on Gene Hackney. They didn’t have a clue who he was. No. I can speak to them more like in generalized themes. Like sports? Like don’t drink and drive. Okay. Well, yeah. like, I’ve never had a DUI. No, no, good. That’s insane when I tell them that. Yeah, yeah. I consumed an ocean of booze. Yeah. I never had a DUI. Yeah. And I tell them, I just made a decision early on and I didn’t have access to it.
Charlie
I can speak to the more like generalized themes, like don’t drink and drive. And they’re like, I’ve never had a DUI. And people think that’s insane when I tell them that. A guy who consumed an ocean of booze never had a DUI. And I tell them, I just made a decision early on and I didn’t have access to all the ride sharing, Lyft and Uber and everything else.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
anybody has today that they have. So stuff like that, I can speak thematically. mean, that list goes on of my advice for them.
because your kids travel, you know.
Charlie
just on the internet without personal experience and you
I’ve got a list of things here I wonder if I could run by you and just ask you what it was like being with this gang of gypsies called the Sheens because we traveled literally all over the world. You started traveling with us when you were four years old. We went to Mexico to shoot Catch- and then you and I went to Mexico to shoot another film a few years later, just you and I. You’ve been to Italy, the Philippines.
I’ve got a list of things here I wonder if I could run by you and just ask you what it was like being with this gang of gypsies called the Sheens because we travel literally all over the world. I’m looking, you started traveling with us when you were four years old. We went to Mexico to shoot Catch . Then you and I went to Mexico to shoot another film a few years later, just you and I. You’ve been to Italy, the Philippines, England.
England, Africa, so many places with us. And then on your own, you’ve been to places all over the world. I’m looking at a note here that Renee gave me. You and I were together on the SS Nimitz. That was amazing. It’s true, yeah. In , I believe it was. Yeah, yeah. We were making a film called The Final Countdown. And you came on board in Norfolk and we went out to sea together on the Nimitz.
Africa, so many places with us. And then on your own, you’ve been in places all over the world. I’m looking at a note here that Renee gave me. You and I were together on the SS Nimitz. That was amazing. That was amazing. I believe. Yes. Yeah. We were making a film called The Final Countdown. Right. You came on board in Norfolk and we went out to sea together. For about a week, wasn’t it? Yeah.
Martin
Yeah, we were on it. And then we flew off on what they call the COD, which is basically a transport plane that brings the mail and… No, it’s a propeller. It’s a prop. Yeah. Yes, it does. Yes, yes. And… Let’s share that experience because we had that together along with our… Mann, your dear childhood friend.
what they call the COD, which is basically a transport plane that brings a mail and- Right, and doesn’t use the catapult. No, it’s a Yeah. Yeah, and it flies off the back of the ship, correct? Yeah. Yeah. That was as terrifying, eventful, memorable- That’s Because we had that together, along with our- Jeff Mann. Jeff Mann. Jeff Mann. Yes, yeah. Who I thank in my book.
What do see? Do you see him these days? You did, yes. Yeah. Yeah, he was one of your… He was one of the favorite… You know how you bring… All you guys would bring friends home and I would say, don’t want them hanging around. But he was one I wanted to see hanging around. We adored Jeff Mann.
Yeah, just randomly in the acknowledgments. He was one of the favorite, you know how you bring, all you guys would bring friends home and I would say, don’t want them hanging around. But he was one I wanted to see hanging around. We adored Jeff Mann. And just on that note about hanging around, based on a fairly famous SNL sketch, you used to call Chris Penn the thing.
that wouldn’t leave. You remember? No Chris, I never said that. Not to his face. Okay. And it’s you or Chris Penn. Yeah. He was the thing who wouldn’t leave. Yeah. He was wonderful. Yeah, he was. And you know the thing, you guys shared something, I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this before, but one of the things I admired most about you and that I never told you or Chris was that when you got…
Martin
No, didn’t know Chris. I never said that. I adore Chris Penn.
No, but he was wonderful. And you know the thing, you guys shared something, and I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this before, but one of the things that I admired most about you and that I never told you or Chris was that when you got caught, you never denied it. It was catching you that was the problem, was the effort. But once you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you never denied it.
you never denied it. It was catching you that was the problem, was the effort. But once you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you never denied it. Both hands. You took your lumps. So I love that about you and Chris. You know, you guys had these friends growing up and some of them were lifelong and he’s one of them and it’s sorely missed. Daily.
And you took your lumps. So I love that about you and Chris. You know, you guys had these friends growing up and some of them were lifelong. And he’s one of them. And it’s sorely missed. Yeah. Really. Yeah. Yeah.
Really? Well, I think about him a lot and just think about where our friendship would be, but I imagine him, what his career would have looked like or what type of stuff he would have kept doing. He was wonderful. Yeah. very unique. He had an energy he couldn’t quite pin down. was daring. Yeah, he was. His imagination.
Martin
Yes.
He was a wonderful actor, so disarming.
Yeah.
Yeah. He was daring. His imagination was almost scary.
Yeah, well, he built a backstory for himself, I think, that didn’t exist. Because he kind of turned in, took on the persona of like a street thug from the East Coast, you know? And I’m like, Chris, we grew up together in Malibu. I mean, at times, the cold streets of Malibu. But there was no stoop to like chug ripple on, you know?
Martin
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was his his fantasy. Yeah, but no, it’s just I think he.
Well, he’s kind of… Yeah, but no, it’s just… And I think he connected it to his physical size because he had a problem with the weight. Our families were inextricably connected by… Yes.
Yeah. Yeah, he did. Our families were inextricably connected by time and space, but also by spirit and energy and love. Yes, it is. Sean and Michael and Chris were the three brothers of Eileen and Leo Penn.
Spirit and energy and love. Which I think is covered in the book pretty nicely. John and Michael and Chris were the three brothers. Eileen and Leo. Eileen and Leo.
Martin
God rest them. And we have still Michael and Sean with us. Sean Penn is one of the great actors of our generation. yeah. And I must say, going back to your documentary, his presence in your documentary was so powerful and incredible. And we’re infinitely grateful to him for appearing. He really did. Yeah.
And Sean with us.
Charlie
Period, the end. Yeah. And I must say, going back to your documentary, his presence in your documentary was so powerful. It was money. And credible. Yeah. And we’re infinitely grateful. Yeah, no, he grounded it in a way that, yeah, it was- To credit to you.
Yeah, so it’s a credit to you and to your relationship with him and his brother and his whole family. They adored you. And you know, on any given night Chris would be here or you would be there, it was all the same, wasn’t it? It’s true. And you guys made those movies. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you.
They adored you. And on any given night, Chris would be here or he would be there. It was all the same. Yeah. It was like there was a tunnel between the two houses. And we would have dug it. We would have dug that tunnel. Yes. But just on Sean for one second, when I called and asked him, and you know how this is. It’s how uncomfortable that is to ask in a giant favor from someone that involves- Yeah, from a giant.
Yeah.
Martin
from a giant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
His response, it wasn’t like, let me check my schedule and call you back. It was essentially where and when.
Where and when? I was like, damn, thank you. He was like, of course, come on. He didn’t even really ask about what the doc was or who the director is or what’s my role in it. He was just like, where and when? Yeah.
We’re eternally grateful to him. He’s a dear man, a brilliant actor, and an old and valued friend. So we were on the Nimitz. We took off in a cod on the Nimitz in the summer of into one of the worst storms I think I’ve ever witnessed. And this little plane got buffeted around and suddenly
So, what were we talking about before that? We were on the Nimitz. we were on the Nimitz. Yes. Yes.
Martin
The top blew off. on the top. Couldn’t close it. Yeah. we flew through the storm. Yeah.
The cargo door. Yeah. And we couldn’t get above the storm, couldn’t close it, couldn’t get above the storm so we could pressurize and flew just under it. Yeah. But when that door blew and all the wind rushed in and all the audio changed and everybody’s expressed, mean, did you think in that moment? Yeah. Yeah, I did too. I thought it was over.
Did you think in that moment? This is eternity. Yeah, we’re there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I looked at you and I think you saw the same look on me that I saw on you. This is it, kiddo. And there was our dear friend, your dear friend, Jeff Mann, thinking, what the hell am I doing on this flight? He was. So, all right, we’re conjuring up some
think you saw the same look on me. So I knew this is it. This is it. And there was our dear friend, your dear friend, Jeff Mann. Jeff Mann taking what the hell am I doing? was he was probably laughing. He probably found it funny. Yeah. Good. Gosh. So all right.
wonderful experiences here that you’ve had in your childhood. I assume they’re wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a favorite memory of where you were, what you were doing at a time and place that no one knows about?
Charlie
that you’ve had in your childhood. I assume they’re wonderful. Most of them were. Yeah, for sure.
Charlie
I don’t know if it’s one memory. It’s more about…
just the simplicity of things. It’s more about being feeling completely connected to everything we were doing. Building a Ford or riding a bike or chasing a girl or scoring dope or whatever. When dope was still weed. And just the innocence of all of it. And the kids today don’t understand how you could possibly schedule
And just the innocence of all of it. it’s the kids today don’t understand like how you could possibly schedule anything with any success without technology. Yeah.
anything with any success without technology involved. And it’s really hard to paint the picture for them about, well, it wasn’t really about that. You just told everybody, all right, we’re going to meet at Dave’s, then we’re going to hit the deli at four, and then we’re going to go to the movie. And by the time you got to the deli, if somebody was missing or hadn’t shown up, usually a guy in an apron would come out, tell, hey,
By the time you got to the deli, if somebody was missing or hadn’t shown up, usually a guy in an apron would come out, know, tell, hey, daddy’s mom just called and he’s running minutes late. You know what saying? There’s a way to stay in touch. a way for your plan to stay cohesive. Yeah, there were no cell phones.
Charlie
Daddy’s mom just called and he’s running minutes late. You know what saying? There was a way to stay in touch. There was a way for your plan to stay cohesive. There were no cell phones. then, you know, but everybody was at the dinner table at six o’clock. Right? For the most part. You know, I do think that the cell phones, particularly the iPhone is one of the great inventions ever. And contributions. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you’re right. You know, I do think the cell phones particularly the iPhone is one of the great inventions ever really Yeah
on the other side of that coin is the exact opposite. I think it’s a black hole into…
Are you worried about your children and their involvement with the AI?
their involvement with AI? I mean, it’s, yeah, but not to the degree of being overprotective or super paranoid or any of that stuff, because I have confidence in the stuff they’re learning from me that doesn’t directly relate to any of that tech, but is just more about character and nobility and responsibility and respect. I think those virtues.
Martin
to any of that tech, but it’s just more about character, and ability, and responsibility, respect. I think those virtues.
will have a hand and stay present in and around whatever those darker aspects might be of the technology. Does any of that make sense? I think it does. Okay.
and stay present in and around whatever those darker aspects might be of the technology. Does any of that make sense? I think it does for one who doesn’t have a clue about technology. Yeah, no, there’s time for my dad to get a phone connected. be, know, waste a lot of time. In the other days, I’m so jealous. I don’t have a clue. I’m not proud of it, but I tell people if I owned a computer,
Yeah, no, there’s times when I’m like, dad, get a phone, get connected. could FaceTime all your grandkids. And then there’s other days, I’m so jealous that you don’t have anything to do with it.
Martin
I wouldn’t know how to turn it on, and it’s true.
Right.
Interesting. Interesting. To really explain to him what it was. And essentially, he’s still doing radio. Exactly. That’s true. Still doing radio.
That’s true. When we started this podcast, my whole image of doing it was the imagination to try and awaken the imagination of the listener because that’s what I grew up with and that was the most exciting thing was because you formed it on your own from what you were hearing.
whole image of doing it was the imagination to try and awaken the imagination of the listener. Right.
Charlie
because you formed it on your own. Right.
and then you visualized it and you held that image, you know. So much like me telling my kids, know, we built a fort that day. Yeah.
So much like me telling my kids, know, we built a fort that day and you know, so-and-so fell off his bike and you know, just to start like, so you and your pals would be like huddled around a radio, like the size of a lazy boy listening to the news, right? Listening to ball games, the news, performance shows. Yeah, they had series, regular series.
Yeah, we call it a console.
Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah. Performance shows? Yeah, they had series, regular series on different nights of the week. My favorite was Sunday night because that was Jack Benny and Fred Allen and Charlie McCarthy and Edgar Bergen and all of those half-hour comedies, variety shows, and they were just spectacular. in line-up in this picture. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Charlie
Okay.
Charlie
variety shows and they were just- In a hall of fame lineup you just mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. And so then were they serialized? Yes. Okay. The big shows for kids were on Saturday morning. Okay. On the radio still. On the radio. Wow. And then the dialogue amongst your mates would be- Reference to those shows. Got it. And trying to predict what next week’s-
serialized? Yes, all of them were serialized. The big shows for kids were on Saturday morning. would have… On the radio? On the radio, yeah. All of these series, yeah.
Martin
Reference to those shows, Yeah, for sure. And the weeknights were the shows, the latest we could stay up was like eight o’clock. Thursday nights was Mr. Keen, Tracer of Lost Persons and The Shadow and Cats and Jamers and there was so.
reveal might be. Yeah, for sure. And the weeknights were, the show’s, latest we could stay up was like eight o’clock. Thursday nights was Mr. Keen, Tracer of Lost Persons. Okay. And Shadow and Tats and Jammers. Tracer as in like a skip tracer?
You know, trying to find missing persons. And no, no, no, no. He was like a police officer in a special unit. You know? Yeah. No, no, he just had a lot of skill. Mr. Keen, tracer of lost persons. I’m beginning. Also, the Long Ranger was very, very popular.
Got it, got it, okay. So not like a bounty hunter. No, no. Okay.
police officer in a special unit. Did he have any psychic powers? No, no, he just had a lot of skills. Got it. Mr. Keene, tracer of lost persons. I’m going to find an episode of that and listen to it.
Charlie
I’m sure.
Ohio Silver, the Long Ranger rides again off to the beat of what is the music in the background, Janet? William Tell Overture. So yeah, radio was, I grew up on and loved. And so when we started doing this podcast, I told Renee, said, let’s speak to a radio audience and see if we can get people interested. well, we got you interested, Joe.
So yeah, radio was, grew up on and loved. And so when we started doing this podcast, told Renee, said, let’s speak to a radio audience and see if we can get people interested. And well, we got you interested. I’m here. I’m here. Yeah. I tuned in. I tuned in and showed up. So, you…
So, you are now in the process of forming your own podcast. Well, I’m starting to imagine it. Doing a podcast.
Well, I’m starting to imagine it. Yeah. And I’m starting to feel what it would be like in the room with that, with those responsibilities. don’t know. I’m not going to, I’m not going to go down a political lane. I think that’s, that’s just, it’s a crowded house and it’s just not something that I don’t. There’s people doing it, you know, expertly on both sides and there’s no reason for me to try to.
Martin
Okay, would there be a theme?
Martin
No.
Yeah, okay. Yeah. There’s people doing it, know, expertly on both sides. Yeah. There’s no reason for me to add anything to it. Yeah, yeah. I think more of sports, pop culture. Yeah. Music, film. yeah. like that. Stuff I can speak to. Stuff I’m passionate about. Yeah. I think people are tuning in. Absolutely. Yeah.
add anything to that. I think more sports, pop culture, film, music film, yeah, stuff like that. Stuff I can speak to, stuff I’m passionate about. I think people would tune in. What do you think? I think they’d tune in out of curiosity. The trick is keeping them there. That’s the trick.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you are so open and receptive and you have such a wealth of powerful past and imaginative storytelling and reality. you know, there’s really a wonderful mystery that surrounds you, Charlie, that comes through when one gets to spend time with you and exchange ideas and stories and stuff. And it’s very engaging.
to spend time with you and exchange ideas and stories. Thank you. I appreciate that. It’s very engaging. I wonder if you would just
Martin
I wonder if you just want to gloss over some of the places and some of the people, some of the memories from locations that we did together. Just share some of those. I just want to run back to Mexico in . You’re four years old. We’re in a place called Wymus, and I’m making a film called Catch . And you’d been wrenched out of your home in January of that year. Yeah, it’s in the book.
places, some of the people, some of the memories from locations that we did together. Just share some of those. just want to run back to Mexico, . You’re four years old. We’re in a place called Wymus and I’m making a film called Catch . And you’d been wrenched out of your home in San Diego that year. Yeah, it’s in the book. It’s in the book, those three questions. And what are those questions you’re asking me every morning? Where are we?
And what are those questions you were asking me every morning? Yes. Okay. Home was New York City. And the current location was in Wamos, Mexico. And then we came to Los Angeles and we kind of made a permanent home of it. We didn’t go back home. Now we had a new home. What was that about? How did you feel about that?
What day is it? When are we going home?
And then we came to Los Angeles and we kind of made a permanent home of it. We didn’t go back home. Now we had a new home. What was that about? How did you feel about that? I don’t remember a lot of it because if you recall, I had to kind of switch hats from author to journalist when I would come interview you and mom.
Martin
Okay.
Martin
switch hands.
Charlie
just for the backstory stuff, Just out of respect, just not to not get it wrong. Yeah, for your book. Yes. Yeah. So I remember taking you to New
I taking you to New York. I was doing a play in in New York called Hello and Goodbye. And I took you with me and we stayed with a friend, Jud Jones, over in New York. And you were four, maybe five? Yeah.
Okay.
Charlie
Judge Jones over in New York. And you were four or five. And one day you came to see the play at Chaperone by my sister Carmen. And you started yelling at me on stage from the audience. During the play? Yeah. What a mess. No, but I do have a specific memory from that time. What is it? It’s you. Do you remember your wardrobe from that play by any chance?
And one day you came to see the play, chaperoned by my sister Carmen, and you started yelling at me on stage from the audience. Yes, you remember that. Yeah.
Martin
What is it? Do you remember your wardrobe from that play? I have overalls. Yeah. In my mind it’s a jumpsuit. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Okay, because in my mind it’s a jumpsuit, which is close, same category, right? And it’s an alley. It’s like a brick building alley. And you’re talking to someone, it’s midday, probably in the fall. When did you do the play? you remember? Okay. But it’s the reason that chapter in the book exists about the cowboy costume with the hernia surgery and that, it’s that whole thing about our memories from
Okay?
Martin
Okay.
In the fall, yeah.
Oh my god, Okay, yeah. No, I don’t think there is, no.
A photo we glanced from that moment or are they actually from being in that moment? But that is, I don’t think there’s a photo in our archives of you in that outfit in a brick building alleyway. There isn’t. No. In fact, we know there isn’t. You and I went through all of them. Yeah. So that’s an imprint that is organic.
Yeah. So you remember having a surgery when you were just a child? you remember being told?
Charlie
Well, not really. No. But I remember seeing a photo of me in the cowboy costume going to surgery. Right. But then, then, okay. But then come to discover after I’ve written the chapter and ready to go to print that no such photo has ever existed. How about that? Yeah.
Okay. Janet has signaled that you were two years old.
Martin
that no such photo has ever existed. How about that? Wow, in your mind. Yeah. Okay. Wow. I saw it in an album. know the color of the table. know the color of the… Wow. Yeah. It’s really wild. Oh, wow. It’s what the brain does. It’s amazing. mystery. What is one of your favorite childhood memories, if you can recall such now?
But like saw it in an album. I know the color of the table. I know the color of the album. Yeah, it’s really wild. The stuff the brain does, especially with memory.
Charlie
It was stuff with the Heaths, with the twins, Kim and Steve Heath. Yeah, we met in the third grade. And it was stuff that usually involved Chris, the Heaths. Dave Anderson didn’t show up until sixth grade. He was a latecomer. so, yeah, there’s not like specific memories, but it’s just a feeling.
You went to school with them? Yeah, we met in the third grade. And it was stuff that usually involved Chris, the Heaths. Chris Penn. Yeah, Dave Anderson didn’t show up until sixth grade. Okay. He was a latecomer. Okay. And so, yeah, there’s not like specific memories.
Martin
But it’s just a feeling, just that connection of friendship and what it meant because it was really all we had. Well then of course we discovered movies, discovered short films, which I think opened the door to world. There’s some wonderful footage from those days in the documentary.
just that connection of friendship and what it meant because it was really all we had. Well then of course we discovered movies, we discovered making short films, Super , which I think opened a door, opened a portal probably.
Charlie
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s really cool that that’s the first time anybody’s really seen that stuff and the way the director, Andrew Renzi, assembled it and presented it and had all the editing and just how much work went into that. was crafted masterfully. But it’s just some days it’s a memory of walking to the market, you’re shoplifting at the pharmacy or…
Yeah, true. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Martin
shoplifting at the pharmacy. You can still taste things from those memories, if that makes sense. It’s like the thing that you and I have talked about in the Philippines was the constant smell, scent, burning rubber. It permeated everywhere. It seemed to be, yeah. And when I stepped off the plane,
Yeah, can still taste things from those memories, if that makes sense. It’s like the thing that you and I have talked about in the Philippines was the constant smell, scent of burning rubber. It just permeated everywhere and anywhere. And when I stepped off the plane,
to go back and do Platoon, the identical set was in the air in my nose in a half a second. And it was a flood of, whoa, it’s been years, and this is really happening. And here we are again.
go back and do platoon, the identical set was in the air in a half a second. It was a flood of, whoa, it’s been years and this is really happening. Here we are again. You went into a lot of your time as a child on Apocalypse Now and then related it to platoon years later. and I related it without relating it.
Yes, and I related it without relating it because I felt like that would be kind of the paint by numbers version of, and wow, this on Apocalypse was so similar to this other thing. I felt like that was cheesy, but I told, I was going to leave that up to the audience. Let them figure it out.
Martin .
numbers versions. And wow, this on Apocalypse is so similar to this other thing. I was going leave that up to the audience. We’re going to take a brief pause now, but please don’t go away. There’s a lot more to come.
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us as we continue. What’s your favorite film? My favorite film? No, that you’ve done. I’ve done? Yeah. I don’t think I’ve made it yet. Really? Do you mean of the ones I have made? Yeah. Just as far as… Platoon? It’s not Platoon. It’s not your best performance, you feel? We can’t. No. How do we judge that? No. How do we judge that? No, I hear you. Yeah. know what saying? Yeah. What about Wal… Is Apocalypse your best…
My favorite film that I’ve done. I don’t think I’ve made it yet. You mean of the ones I have made? Just as far as just one. It’s not Platoon. No. We can’t. How do we judge that? How do we judge that? We can’t. You know what saying? mean, is Apocalypse your best performance? You see? Yeah.
I can’t tell. yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like pieces of things. Yeah. What about Wall Street? Pieces of that. Incidentally, I loved you in Wall Street. That’s hilarious. No, recently I saw a clip of it recently and it was very gratifying to remember that. Yeah, very good.
I like pieces of things. I like pieces of it. My favorite film, I Love You in Wall Street. That’s hilarious.
Charlie .
Charlie .
Was it? Yeah, was it good? Okay. Was it us or was it something else?
It was actually Michael doing the greed speech. he was talking, but it was just a clip, but he was giving a tribute to Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle. He was talking about them and just referencing, yeah. My favorite film, the one I’m proud of is Major League. Major League, yeah. It’s really withstood the test of time. Yeah, it was on recently.
Oh, gotcha. Wow. My favorite film, the one I’m proud of is Major League. Major League. Yeah. And it’s really withstood the test of time. It’s a- It was only recently. Oh, it was? Yeah. No, just hits every note. And essentially it’s a love story disguised as a baseball movie. It’s really about Jake and Renee. And it just did-
Yeah. Essentially, it’s a love story. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really about Jake.
Yeah.
Martin .
And it just did the influence that it’s had, the way it revived baseball in Cleveland. Really? Essentially, yeah. Make people want to care again. Yeah. Want to be passionate again. All right. Want to believe in something. Want to mention that your mother grew up in Cleveland. Well, there’s that connection as Yeah, yeah, yeah.
to the influence that it’s had, the way it revived baseball in Cleveland. I mean, essentially, yeah, made people want to care again, want to be passionate again, want to believe in something.
Charlie .
Well, there’s that connection as well. So it, and it’s interesting to, you know, meet parents that have handed that like a rite of passage of baseball, torch that’s passed when they watched that film with their kids, when they saw it as a kid, you know? so that’s, that’s pretty rewarding.
It’s interesting to meet parents that handed that, like a rite of passage, a torch that’s passed, watched that film with their kids when they saw it as a kid. That’s pretty rewarding. If you had a choice to do a remake of any film you’ve done, which one would it be?
What would it be? A remake or a continuation? a reboot? You still think you could pitch? No. No. No. mean, would have to, you’d have to ask the audience to jump through so many story hoops that it was like an emergency scenario and he was the only guy and they signed him to a one hour contract in the dugout, you know? And somehow by some loophole in the rule book.
continuation, let’s
You still think you could pitch? No. No. You wouldn’t want to try and… You have to ask the audience to jump to so many story hooks that it was like an emergency schedule and the only guy would sign him to a one-time in that dugout. Somehow by some loophole in the rule book. He comes out of that. the of the century, Here he comes. Okay. He wouldn’t be a pitching coach?
Charlie .
from the turn of the century, he’s allowed to do this. Yeah, he can do that. Sure. But then it’s not. Is that what the audience that the audience wants? know, I think I did.
Yeah.
Not the same, yeah. I have to tell you this. I think I did, but I’m going to share it with the audience. Major League had just opened and I had not had a chance to see it. And I was driving somewhere through the Central Valley in California and I was passing a remote, what do call, mall area and the sign was advertising Major League.
That’s what it was. And I was passing a remote, what do call, mall area. And the sign was advertising Major League.
and the times and I looked at my watch and I said, my God, yes, I can see it now. Yeah, it starts in a few minutes. So I got off the freeway. It was, there were a couple of, not , but there were a few and I got a ticket and I went in. I was one of two. Yeah, it was a couple. I think it was a mother and daughter and myself in this empty theater. And I watched with fascination.
Charlie .
starts in minutes. Was in a multiplex like when they’re like other films playing that day.
Was there anybody else in there? I was one of two. That’s kind of cool. I was a couple.
Martin .
And when you came out of the dugout to pitch as a reliever, and you made that walk across the outfield and made your way to the mound, and the audience is screaming, wild thing, I broke into tears with such joy and appreciation and love for you. And I thought, my God, if this were happening really,
reliever. Right.
Charlie .
Yeah. I broke into tears. That’s awesome. Wow. joy and appreciation and love for you. Thank you. my God. If this were happening really. Right. In a ballpark anywhere.
in a ballpark anywhere in the country. And I couldn’t have been prouder of you coming out of the bullpen, making your way to the mound. my God. Very much so. That’s one of my favorite memories of all the work and some of it brilliant that you’ve done in films. Yeah. I’m very proud of that.
thank you. Thank you. So you felt what a father feels when their kid makes his debut in the big leagues. What a trip.
Charlie .
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Charlie .
Yeah, it’s funny because I talk about that because people, you know, I do these speaking engagements and stuff like that. And everybody wants to talk about that moment. And oh my God, how did it feel? I’m like, well, it was about four in the morning. We only had about, no, it was in Milwaukee. Yeah. I know. I know. It’s funny because there’s a line in Stripes that Harold Ramis has and somebody like.
speaking engagement.
It is a moment, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And it was in Baltimore, wasn’t it? It was Milwaukee. yeah. Don’t let the Cleveland fans know that.
Charlie .
Bill Murray mentions something about Milwaukee and Harold’s like Milwaukee. I got my ass kicked in Milwaukee So I can’t hear the word Milwaukee without hearing the late great Harold Ramis But yeah, we had about people left in the stands But hanging out by a thread and I’m out there and they had to do that one Establishing shot of me with the other pitchers in the bullpen, you know So we got that and then had to make that walk and there were so few people
walking.
got my ass kicked in Milwaukee. So I can’t hear the word Milwaukee without hearing that. But yeah, we had about people left in the stands. That’s it. Hanging out by a thread. Oh my God. I’m out there and they had to do that one establishing shot, me with the other pitchers. We got that and then had to make that walk. there were so few people, they had to scrunch them all up to get far right hand side of the.
They had to scrunch them all up to the far right hand side of the frame. This is before AI. Yeah. yeah. There’s one, I guess, you can’t really, there’s an effect in Major League that, no AI had to be hand drawn literally on the film. It’s the ball going into Willie Mays Hayes, Wesley Snipes, his glove when he makes that over the wall home run robbery catch.
This is before AI.
Martin .
guess you can’t really there’s an effect in major league there’s no AI had to be hand drawn literally on the film it’s the ball going into William Hayes Wesley Snipes his glove when he makes that over-the-wall home run robbery catch really yeah in the big game yeah he made the catch he was super athletic
in the big game, yeah. he made the catch. I he was super athletic. I mean, he couldn’t hit. He couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. But he was great at everything else, right? And so he leaped and he was well above the wall and he kept making the play, kept pulling the ball back, but you couldn’t see the ball. And David Warren, the guy who directed it and wrote it, he was like, how do we fix this?
water if he fell out of a boat. But he was great at everything else. he’d leave and he was well above the wall and he kept making the play, kept pulling the ball back. But you couldn’t see the ball. I see. was like, how do we fix this? And had to… I know a guy who could draw it. Yeah, some animator from s or something. And he put the ball in his glove.
Somebody was like, I know a guy. Someone that like, yeah, some animator from the s or something. And he put the ball in his glove. Yeah, it was kind of a trip. But yeah, that whole walk was about as unheroic as it possibly could have been, just given the elements of that specific night. Amazing film making. Yeah, it’s a trip. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow. But yeah, that whole walk was about as unheroic as it possibly could have been, just given the elements of that specific night. Amazing filmmaking, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s exciting. What actually happened and what we actually see and how we made the feel. And then how we feel and the stuff that we remember watching the movie. It’s never really about the scene or the co-star or the content or whatever.
Charlie .
Yeah. And then how we feel and the stuff that we remember watching a movie, it’s never really about the scene or the costar or the content or whatever. It’s usually about something that happened like you remember like at lunch that day or somebody showed up that day or something went wrong right after that scene. You know what I’m saying? It’s the stuff that’s sort of outside the lines, right? Yeah.
It’s usually about something that happened.
that day. Somebody showed up that day where something went wrong right after that scene. You know what saying? It’s the stuff that’s sort of outside the lines. Yeah. What do you visualize for your kind of immediate future? I know you’ve been very busy still promoting the book and the documentary and you’re still doing a lot of interviews and you do a number of these
You
where you go and sign pictures and meet your fans’ shows. Yeah, they’re called Comic-Cons. Yeah.
Charlie .
Shows. Yeah. Yeah. Comic cons. Well, yeah. I don’t so much do the comic cons. I did one in Pittsburgh and I prefer the sports conventions. You do? Yeah. What’s the difference? The difference is it’s all athletes. It’s all athletes. so, yeah. And so it’s, I don’t know, I just have an easier time talking to great athletes about
the sports conventions. You do, yeah. What’s the difference?
Martin .
Yeah. Still athletes. Okay. Mostly retired athletes.
an easier time.
their achievements than other actors about their movies, you know. With the athletes? I mean, we both know the answer to that.
Does the ego come into play? No, the actors. I wasn’t going to venture it. I hear you.
And then it’s like, how loud can you ring your own bell when you’re at an autograph convention? But it’s all right. Everybody does it. No shame there. But yeah, so with Major League, with Eight Men Out, there’s the baseball connection, obviously. And so it’s nice to be able to slide right into those kind of shows, having never played any sport professionally.
Martin .
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, of course not. Yeah. with major.
is the baseball connection obviously. And so it’s nice to be able to slide right into those kind of shows, having never played any professional. But I have a front row invitation. Yeah, speaking of playing with professionals, one of my favorite memories with you is playing with Michael Jordan. The way that was handled in the doc. Yeah.
But I have a front row invitation, so that’s pretty cool.
Charlie .
Yeah. And how that the way that was handled in the dock, I thought was phenomenal. Yeah. I love the first episode of the dock. Yeah. Yeah. that’s all Renzi. Yeah. The second episode I think was all Netflix and I’m not hacking on them. especially since they’re about to own everything. and so
Yeah, was. Yeah, I was very proud of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re talking about the director. Oh, really? You think? No. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I just felt it was it was more TMZ-ish.
Yeah, I just felt it was more TMZ-ish than it needed to be. And it leaned into stuff that people were so familiar with and probably bored. It didn’t pull the curtain back on super insightful stuff that was revelatory or, now it makes sense. You know what I’m saying? It felt like just retread. It felt also Wren.
Yeah. You know, didn’t, it didn’t generate, it didn’t pull the curtain back on like super insightful stuff. Yeah. now it makes sense. Yeah. It was just kind of, it felt like just retread. Yeah. Also rent. Okay. But that’s, that’s the deal. That’s the thing. That’s the way it goes with that company. Yeah. They, the director of no longer has.
And but that’s the deal. That’s the thing. That’s the way it goes with that company. They, the director no longer has creative control. Yeah.
Martin .
control. You have any aspirations to direct? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But it had to be something that I’ve written. okay. And I’ve already seen it in my mind. Yeah. And I’ve already built. Okay. Pretty much seen it every shot. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to have a sense of, I’ve already felt every scene. You’ve actually been directing since you were a child because all of those Super movies that you did with the lads and their direction.
Yeah, absolutely. But it had to be something that I’d written because then I’ve already seen it in my mind. Then I’ve already built, pretty much seen every shot and at least have a sense of, I’ve already felt every scene.
Charlie .
They required some measure of direction. Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. And then as you well know, you know, we’ve found ourselves in a lot of scenarios with a air quotes director who we just, you know, we had to help them out. Yeah. Exactly. Yes, we have for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. As you well know, you know, we’ve found ourselves in a lot of scenarios with a…
Martin .
We had to help them out a little bit, make them think it was their idea. Yeah, and then we worked with a lot of brilliant ones. Yeah. Who’s your favorite director?
Not that you’ve worked with, but just in his career. Spilberg. Spilberg, yeah, really. Spilberg. Okay. You ever met him? Yes. What was he like? Really? Yeah, yeah. I agree. I worked with him. I was very proud of it. Yeah, he’s amazing. Yeah, he’s very disarming and very sweet man. Is he efficient? mean, does he show up and you start? Extremely. Doesn’t stop? Extremely, yeah. Does he a moment where nobody knows? No.
did you work with, but just in your career? Spielberg. Spielberg? Yeah, Spielberg. Yeah. met him? Yes, a couple times. He’s terrific. yeah, terrific. I agree. worked with him. Yeah, no, it’s amazing.
Is he efficient? is it like you show up and you start and it’s just like, just, it doesn’t stop. It’s just, wow. There’s never a moment where nobody knows what is happening next. Yeah. What a trip. Wow.
And it’s a lot of fun. He’s a lot of fun. Yeah, I was very fond of him. So do you want to talk a little bit about projecting yourself into the future where you are now, where you’d like to be and how you ascend to that image? What have you got in mind? Anything professional? I know you’re working on a… yeah. Say the name of it, please. It’s called Happy Jack. Yeah.
Charlie .
Rejecting yourself into the future.
Charlie .
What have you got in mind? Anything professional? you’re working Yeah, no. Well, you read the script for that TV show, which I think was pretty good. Yeah. Say the name of it. It’s called Happy Jack. Yeah. Yeah. What is this? It’s a family sitcom. And it’s about a guy who kind of struck it rich with a booze company that he named after himself.
And what is the scenario there? It’s a family sitcom. Yeah, yeah.
Martin .
Yeah.
and his business partner is his straight-laced daughter. And his more bohemian daughter is out in the world pursuing a musical career. just in the middle of it, she comes home to announce that she’s met the man of her dreams. they’re going to get married, and they just wanted my blessing. And the guy steps in, and he’s my age.
No.
He meant.
Martin .
doing a musical career. And just in the middle of it, she comes home to announce that she’s met the man of her dreams. And they’re going to get married and just wanted my blessing. And the guy steps in and he’s my age. And she’s – . So, you know, you as the father, you own the bar that will not carry you.
And she’s late s. And so, but you know, you as the father, you own the bar that will not carry my booze. For reasons we’ll find out later. But written by Jim Patterson, who was one of the head writers on Two and a Half. He has a show on ABC right now, Shifting Gears. He ran a show on Netflix for eight seasons, seven seasons called The Ranch.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
eight season, seven season, it’s called The Ranch. I’m a super qualified top show, show runner, terrific writer. And just wants to bring something kind of like what we did back in the day. Bring something to that world that’s desperately missing right now. I can’t watch this. can’t. I even tell Jim and I’m a fan of Tim Allen, but I try to watch any sitcom these days. It’s work. It’s work.
I mean, super qualified, top shelf showrunner, terrific writer, and just wants to bring something kind of like what we did back in the day, know, bring something to that world that’s desperately missing right now. I can’t watch this. can’t. I even tell Jam. And I’m a fan of Tim Allen, but trying to watch any sitcom these days is work. It’s work.
Martin .
I wonder how a joke made it from Monday to Friday. Yeah. Watching these shows. And, you know, I’ve been spoiled with kind of writing talent. Yeah. That joke didn’t make it to Monday afternoon. No. But you were, of course, you know, an integral part of one of the great sitcoms ever. With Two and a Half Men. We were told when we went on the air that the sitcom was dead and it was all about reality television.
wonder how a joke made it from Monday to Friday when I’m watching these shows. And, you know, I’ve been spoiled with the kind of writing talent that that joke didn’t make it to Monday afternoon. And so
Charlie .
I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. But we were told when we went on the air that the sitcom was dead and it was all about reality television. You guys don’t stand a chance. And how dare you think you can crash this party? And we’re like, all right, everybody take it easy. Take it easy. Just let us, you know. We’re talking about the first I’m talking about two and a half, yeah. Which is covered in the book. And so it’s funny because I don’t get the two and a half to like page of the page book, which I think
You’re talking about the first season of Two and a Men. Yeah.
Charlie .
A lot of people appreciate it. If it opened with like, here’s all that crazy stuff. Everybody would like, how are you?
Yeah, yeah. How are you and John? Yeah, No. Yeah. Yeah. He’s very effective. Yeah, very much so. He’s still taking shots. You. OK. Yeah. OK. And whether it were so we’re still waiting to hear if how happy Jack can possibly be.
I think we’re good. mean, we don’t really hang out or talk, but I love that he showed up for the doc. I that was super generous. I mean, he’s still taking shots. He’s still taking shots in the doc, but whatever, whatever. I’ve weathered worse. So we’re still waiting to hear if how happy Jack can possibly become.
and where it might land. Any prediction or? I don’t. Nothing at this point. It could happen any day. It could happen any minute. So maybe I’ll have to take a break from this podcast to go back to work again.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t. I don’t. I don’t have one. No. But could happen any any minute actually.
Charlie .
You’re going to have to work your schedule around this. Yeah. But no, you know, one of the things, it’s really cool to get in the moment, real-time feedback from the fans, from the people. And I would just pose it to the crowd at whatever thing I was at and just say, you know, I’m now seeing terrific material for the first time in years, both drama and, well, mostly drama. The only comedy that I really liked was
you hear that, Renee? Okay. But no, you know, one of the things, it’s really cool to get in the moment, real time feedback from the fans, from the people. I would just pose it
Martin .
I’m now seeing terrific material for the first time in years. Really? Yeah. and well mostly drama. The only comedy that I really liked was the only one I was interested in was the thing that Jim wrote. Yeah. And so and I would just pose it to the audience. You what do you guys think? You want to platoon me or you want the guy who’s the piano player in the bowling alley?
The only one I was interested in was the thing that Jim wrote. And so, and I would just pose it to the audience, you what do you guys think? You want to platoon me or you want the guy, the piano player in the bowling shirt, you know? And they were like, that guy, that guy. And so, so yeah, it’s, so there’s still a thirst for it for me to deliver some laughs.
So yeah, it’s, so there’s still a thirst for it. For me to deliver some laughs. Yeah. Well, you stay in great shape and you have a very open and kind of honest personal opinion of yourself and it’s very gratifying that you’re ready to go right back in. Yeah.
Thank you. You’re ready to go right back in. Yeah, no, it’s the thing that athletes talk about. Stay ready so you don’t have to get ready. Yeah. And I get that. I get that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You clearly have been working out and being conscious of your feeding trough, if I may. You look terrific, John. You really do.
Charlie .
Thank you. Thank you. No, I wanted to… I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I just, knew what the, how demanding the tour was going to be. And I knew what it was going to require physically, emotionally, psychologically. And just did things to prepare. I traveled with a portable sauna blanket. Really? Yeah. And like, it was like…
Yeah.
Martin .
Yeah.
Martin .
Really?
like transporting a dead body from across state lines all over the country. but I committed to it because I knew how I felt starting the day with that thing at home. So why not have that same feeling, that same preparation on the road? And I did. But I was just a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking back on some of these, like these two week chunks of the thing that would involve
I a dead body across state lines all over the country. But I committed to it. I knew how I felt starting the day with that thing at home, so why not have that same feeling, that same preparation on the road? I You did, you did.
Some of these, like these two-week chunks are the thing that would involve, you know, five cities in six days and just the amount of books that had to be the amount of like smiles that had to Had to be performed. yeah. And just keeping the momentum. Yeah. And how I dealt with most of it was just handling what was right in front of me. Yeah. And it’s not an AA thing. It’s just a pacing thing. Yeah.
you know, five cities in six days and just the amount of books that had to be signed and the amount of like smiles that had to be. Exactly. And just keeping the momentum and, and how I dealt with most of it was just handling what was right in front of me. And that’s not an AA thing. That’s just a pacing thing. Cause you start looking at the whole mountain.
Martin .
because you start looking at the whole mountain and you quit. You start looking at the various.
and you quit. You start looking at the various, you know, what do they call them? Various plateaus, you know, the obstacle to campsites, whatever you want to, how you want to look at that. Yeah, then it’s a lot more manageable, you know, suddenly it’s like your next stop is the summit. But yeah, as far as, when I go back on television,
various plateaus. Obstacles. Yeah. Obstacles, whatever you want to do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, then it’s a lot more manageable. Yeah. Suddenly it’s like the next stop is the summit. Yeah. But yeah, as far as, would I go back on television? Absolutely. Would I do a super cool film with the right director if it was offered? Absolutely. Yeah. That said, I’m not going to say but.
Absolutely. Would I do a super cool film with the right director if it was offered? Absolutely. That said, I’m not going to say but. We all as a species have to get out of the habit of saying but because it discounts everything you just stated. So I think the fix to it is in addition to what I just said, if…
we all as a species have to get out of the habit of saying, but. Yeah. This counts everything you just stated. Something to fix to it is in addition. OK. OK. In addition to what I just said, if the welcoming party, the reception, if the thing in the podcast world turns into something.
Charlie .
The welcoming party, if the reception, if the thing in the podcast world turns into something that is sustainable, that checks every box, if you know what I mean, then I’d be a fool not to cannonball it in the deep end. And this is not a hobby if I do this. This is a job that I’ll approach like any other with the same…
is sustainable, is checks every box. You know what I mean? Then I’d be a fool not to cannonball it in the deep end. And this is not a hobby if I do this. This is a job that I’ll approach like any other with the same preparation, the same passion, just emotional investment.
The the same passion, the same just emotional investment. If you’re going to do something, do it right. Yeah. Yeah. Make them jealous. Make them proud. Right? That’s a bumper sticker. Make them jealous. Make them proud.
You know, do something, do it right. Make them jealous, make them proud. Okay. Right? That’s a bumper sticker. Make them jealous, make them proud. Make them jealous, make them proud. You heard it right here. I have a question for you. For me? So, I’m . But you know this. You’re that connected. Okay.
I a question for you. For me? Yeah. So I’m , but you know this. You’re that connected. Your research team is that good. You don’t look . I appreciate it. Thank you. Hey, I don’t feel . It’s like I don’t want to be .
Martin .
Your research team is that good. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you don’t look . I’ll say that. No, you don’t act . Yeah, you’re . Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
But we’re born into this thing where it’s like this arbitrary set of time rules that are measured and imposed. And you just have to say, OK, all right, I’m . Whatever you say. Yeah, I’ll stop wearing the funny hat. But just career-wise, your renaissance, your great resurgence with the West Wing. And I’m not saying you were in the toilet before that.
It’s not funny. Okay. But it’s and but just career wise, you’re Renaissance, you’re great resurgence with the West Wing. Yeah. I’m not saying you’re in the toilet. I’ve seen photos of you in FX makeup from like a sci fi show. No, that wasn’t me. no, I’m sure it’s not. No, no, feel like that was like a few months before West. Yeah, no, no, no.
But I have seen photos of you in FX makeup from like a sci-fi show. That wasn’t you? Okay. And that, I feel like that was like a few months before West Wing. So is that a version of the toilet? That’s a sci-fi toilet? It flushes in reverse?
I have no idea. No, I’m not sure it was me. the record, Charlie, I was when I started the West Wing and I was , when I completed it. And I still felt like I was still on track. I could have done that show for another seven seasons.
Charlie .
. Okay. Okay. So I have a shot is what you’re saying.
Charlie .
Okay.
Charlie .
Wow, and why didn’t you? Did you leave or did they write you off? your term ended. But it’s suspended reality. they have just said, this isn’t in real time, people?
We didn’t get… No, it came to an end. Yeah, it came to an end. Yeah, it’s true. Yeah, I think there was a lot of second guessing only after the fact when they realized it had a second life. know, it’s now in its fourth or fifth life with Netflix. They just picked it up again to run it again. The original show.
right. Yeah.
Charlie .
but the original show, not a reboot. No, no, no reboot.
No, no, no reboot, yeah. There was a lot of talk about doing a movie based on it with all the characters. That never came to fruition, obviously. But the fact that it’s still going, know, the people are still relating to it. And young people are seeing it for the first time. A lot of young people say, we’ve heard about this thing called the West Wing. And they are intrigued by it and say, my God, this was on years ago.
Yeah, yeah, sure. That’s awesome.
Charlie .
Wow. Wow. Do you remember it was on the same night as Spin City? Yes. And we used to meet at the condo and watch both, didn’t we? This is before DVR and all that stuff, right? Or the cusp of DVR. then the ratings the next- Yeah. And the ratings the next day, like West Wing was like…
same night as Spin City. Yes, in our first season. You meet at the condo and watch both, do we? In the first season. Before DVR and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Right on the cusp of DVR. Yeah, it was, yeah. And then the ratings. was the year. ratings the next day. Yeah. last one. Yeah.
Curing cancer and we were down in the low s causing it And and But we had laughs about that didn’t we yeah, yeah
We did, yeah, we did a lot. Yeah, yeah. And then we were on this, well, we were on it almost the same time on different nights of the week. We premiered on Wednesday nights.
We were in a competing time slot. You guys weren’t on Mondays. You’re talking about two… But you were never on a Monday on West Wing. No. Okay. So I never got a chance to repay that, to close that circle with two and a half? No. Got it. Okay. Because we would have.
Martin .
guys run on Mondays. Wednesday.
No, no.
Martin .
No, no, I’m afraid not. No, no, no. We remain the number one drama and you remain the number one comedy. Yeah, sitcom. Not for fathers and sons, not that I know. Yeah, we got that. We got that, that’s done. yeah.
What a trip. I don’t think that’s ever happened before. No, no. So we got the Vietnam thing. We got that. That’s done. That’s don’t even, you know, message to all father son actors out there. Stay away from Vietnam. It’s done. And the network television thing. We have that. See, people don’t talk about this stuff enough. Yes, we are. Yeah.
There you go. Please.
Yeah, for sure. We have that. Well, we are now. Yeah, can still get coiffed.
Put these guys back on television. Hello. What the hell? What more do we have to do? Yeah, I can still get co-op. Right? But no, just part of that last question was, did you feel that you hit a stride that you didn’t know was there or you knew was there and you were excited to be able to activate it? I knew it was there. Okay. I couldn’t believe it was actually there. Wow.
Martin .
Did you feel that you hit a stride that you know was there or you knew was there and you were excited to be able to activate it? I knew it was there and I couldn’t believe it was actually happening. And I couldn’t believe that the show would be a commercial success, that we could actually sell cars or insurance or prescription drugs by doing a political show called The West Wing.
Thank
Charlie .
Wow.
about a Democratic president who was a practicing Catholic and who had this extraordinary staff. It was a dream. It was the most extraordinary part of my professional life and my personal life as well. It was unbelievably satisfying.
Catholic. Wow.
Charlie .
And my personal. Amazing.
Charlie .
And here’s an unanswerable question. Could it have worked without Aaron Sorkin? No. He was the reason. Got it. Yeah. And then, you know.
Would it have worked without Aaron Sorkin? No, no. He was the reason that it happened. Yeah. And I was often asked if would I have done it if it were a Republican president? And I said, if Aaron Sorkin wrote it, of course. Yeah. Because he was that fair, know? Yeah. And that skilled and that talented. Yeah. Then, you know, so who cares what he’s doing to get his mind to a place where
That’s a trip. Wow. Wow. But then, you know, so who cares what he’s doing to get his mind to a place where he’s creating that level of entertainment, right? So he’s walking through a security thing and a bag of mushrooms falls out of his pocket. So what? So what? And they tossed him to the…
Yeah. you know, walking through a security thing, you’re carrying a microphone in your pocket. what? So what? You’re right. So what? Yeah. But it was… it wasn’t that exactly. I think, you know, he wrote… That was a deeply disturbing and crisis for him.
Wasn’t that kind of the beginning of it?
Charlie .
deeply disturbing.
Right. Right. He just did whatever he wanted. Yeah.
in his own personal life, but not his professional life, because he didn’t skip a beat. What happened was he wrote almost every episode for four years, and he was struggling. Sometimes, you know this from doing Two and a Half Men, how changes are made right up to the moment you start filming, and the pages would still be warm, and some of the changes would get… color of the rainbow. Yeah, and every color of the rainbow.
Wow. he was struggling sometimes. You know this from doing Two and a Half Men, how changes are made right up to the moment you start faking the pages would still be wrong. You know, some of the changes. And every color of the rainbow. And every color Yeah, for sure. And equally as exciting and truthful.
equally as exciting and truthful and as professional as from the beginning. mean, it just, it got better and better and better and better. And we were on this extraordinary ride, this roller coaster that kept going as long as he could keep riding. His term ended in four years, but he still…
Charlie .
I mean, it just, it got better and better and better and better. Got it.
Charlie .
Wow. His term ended in four years, but he still- But if I was running the studio or the head of the network or whatever and the Vegas thing happens, I’d have been like, okay, so what? Look what this man is delivering. Nobody change a thing. Stay out of his way. Yeah, true. That’s he felt. And hey, Aaron, fly private.
So what? Look what this man is delivering. Nobody’s a thing. Stay out of his way. Yeah, true. That’s the way we felt. And hey, Aaron, fly private. That’s my advice. Not a bunch of AA shit. Aaron, fly private. Okay. Think about it. Nothing changes. No, you’re right. Everybody’s still kicking ass. There you go. Anyway.
That’s my advice, not a bunch of AA s***. Aaron, fly private. And think about it, nothing changes. Everybody’s still kicking ass, right? anyway, okay, so that’s something I have to look forward to. Because I’m feeling the same thing. Yeah, that there’s a lot there. And if it’s going to be directed into a mic with lighting that I feel handsome and quaffed in,
Okay, so that’s something I have look forward to. you do. Because I’m feeling the same thing. You are, good, yeah. There’s a lot there. Yep, yep. And if it’s going to be directed into…
that I feel handsome and co-op. Good chairs. Good chairs. Good chairs. That’s the title of my book. Good chairs. Good chairs. Who chairs? Charlie.
Charlie .
Good chairs and good chairs and good chairs. Maybe that’s the title of my that’s the name of my podcast. Good chairs.
Anyway, like that, yeah, it’s speaking to a guest with a microphone or a costar in a fake living room, I’m ready to go. I’m ready to go.
Yes, if it’s speaking of.
Martin .
Speaking of a co-star, do mind if I inquire about your bachelorhood? Is there anyone that you’re currently involved with that you want to share? There’s nothing scandal-ridden? No, nothing at all. There’s nobody.
Nobody, nobody. There’s nobody. And that’s okay. That’s okay. There’s nobody. it’s interesting. Didn’t start out by choice, but was maintained by choice. Because especially writing the book and all the research for the doc and there was a common denominator. There was a thing where, know, most of, most of actually every story involved a female accomplice. And so I thought, all right.
Okay.
Martin .
there was a common denominator.
Martin .
Yeah. Did involve the female accomplice. Yeah. And so.
And that’s the thing that usually led to a lot of those episodes. I’m not blaming anybody. I’m just saying that was a very significant plot point. And so I thought, all right, what’s the one thing I can actually control as far as making sure that I only have to verify one story, my own? And so, all right, I’ll do this alone.
That’s the thing that usually led to a of those episodes. I’m not blaming anybody. I’m just saying that was a very significant plot point. Yeah. Right? Okay. And so I thought, all right, what’s the one thing I can actually control as far as making sure that I only have to verify one story my own? Yeah. Okay. All right. I’ll do this alone. I’m going to do this alone.
I’m going to do this alone and therefore just get back to a place where I can thrive. The rain like on cue. God is like, yes, yes, stay single Charlie, yes, the plan is working. So yeah, and if she’s out there, great. But it’s also not something that
and therefore just get back to a place where.
Charlie .
I’m not one of these guys that has to have a partner, has to be in a relationship, has to always have somebody there. And some of that has to do with the energy, being a full-time single dad and just not enough room in my car. Literally and symbolically, there’s not enough room in my car. And I just got a smaller car. It’s a nice smaller car, still a Cadillac. Do the lads ask about that? Never.
has to always have somebody there. And some of that has to do with the energy.
Martin .
I that. Yeah. Do the lads? Yeah. Ask about that. None of that. Huh? Okay.
They never say, dad, where’s your new, where’s your girlfriend? Like ever nothing, nothing. They don’t even care. I think they like having full access to me. You know, I’m not saying they’re hoarding me, but they’re not in, they’re not competing for me, which is cool. I think it’s cool. I appreciate that.
okay. Good. Yeah. I’m not saying they’re hoarding me. No. They’re not competing for me, which is cool. Well, we’d love to hoard you, Charlie, but we’re going to have to let you go now with gratitude and admiration. And we’re just very glad and very happy that you agreed to do this. Thank you for joining us and thank you for listening.
All right on.
that you agreed to do this. Hey, thank you for joining us. And thank you.
Charlie .
Do I say thank you also? If you want. thank you for listening. And thank you for hosting, Martin Shane. Thank you for sitting, Amazing.
I say thank you. If you want, if you wish. Thank you for listening. Oh, thank you for hosting. And thank you for sitting, Charlie.
Martin .
Well, Charlie, I’m happy you took an interest in what your old man’s doing and joined me here in the studio. I must admit it was a lot of fun, kiddo. Yeah, for me too, Well, you know, you’re welcome on my podcast anytime you want. Seriously? Yeah, sure. Anytime. Well, that’s great, because I got this list of ideas that I wanted to share with you. A list? A whole list? Yeah, you know, add-ons, couple of music cues, maybe a different logo, guest suggestions, you know, improve.
You took an interest in what your old man’s doing and joined me here in the studio. I must admit it was a lot of fun, kiddo. Yeah, for me too, Pop. You know, you’re welcome on my podcast anytime you want. Seriously? Yeah, sure. Anytime. Well, that’s great because I got this list of ideas that I wanted to share with you and… list? Yeah, know, add-ons, a couple of music cues, maybe a different logo, guest suggestions, know, improvements. May I see that list, please?
May I see that list, please? Did I tell you how much I enjoyed having you on my show?
Did I tell you how much I enjoyed having you on my show? Anytime, Pop.
Martin .
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